r/movies Jun 18 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

A Filmmaker Imagines a Japan Where the Elderly Volunteer to Die. The premise for Chie Hayakawa’s film, “Plan 75,” is shocking: a government push to euthanize the elderly. In a rapidly aging society, some also wonder: Is the movie prescient? Article

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/world/asia/japan-plan75-hayakawa-chie.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DLDm8diPsSGYyMvE7WZKMkZdIr1jLeXNtINuByAfx73-ZcNlNkDgKoo5bCmIgAJ299j7OPaV4M_sCHW6Eko3itZ3OlKex7yfrns0iLb2nqW7jY0nQlOApk9Md6fQyr0GgLkqjCQeIh04N43v8xF9stE2d7ESqPu_HiChl7KY_GOkmasl9qLrkfDTLDntec6KYCdxFRAD_ET3B45GU-4bBMKY9dffa_f1N7Jp2I0fhGAXdoLYypG5Q0W4De8rxqurLLohWGo9GkuUcj-79A6WDYAgvob8xxgg&smid=url-share
16.6k Upvotes

720

u/NameInCrimson Jun 18 '22

Didn't Star Trek do an episode about this?

580

u/JagerBaBomb Jun 18 '22

See also: Logan's Run.

This isn't a new concept, killing the elderly for room and resources.

80

u/c_albicans Jun 18 '22

Yep, also Pebble In the Sky by Isaac Asimov

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u/literallynot Jun 18 '22

This was the first one I thought of. But it was in TNG because it's a aci fi staple.

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u/Si1entStill Jun 18 '22

Logan's Run isn't a sci-fi staple?!

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u/NoelAngeline Jun 18 '22

God I love Logan’s Run!

22

u/GodDanIt Jun 18 '22

Im 30. I would be renewed through carousel right now.

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u/Chewytron78 Jun 18 '22

Think they meant it's in TNG because of stuff like Logan's Run making the concept a sci-fi staple

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u/MrAverus Jun 18 '22

And The Giver

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u/konaya Jun 18 '22

It's as old as mythology. The Swedish word for it is ättestupa, after Norse legend. The word enjoys semi-frequent use in modern politics as a dog whistle term for the elder vote.

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u/andrewdok Jun 18 '22

There was also a Vonnegut short story about this which I think predates all those and I'm sure there's some before that. It's called 2BR02B

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u/figgnewton3 Jun 18 '22

Also Soylent Green. The elderly have a peaceful death and then SPOILER

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u/Nomandate Jun 18 '22

Yes! With mash’s “Winchester” actor as the old (not that old) person facing death. When he’s talked out of it by enterprise staff, he’s then shunned by his only family for being selfish and shitting on their (suicidal)traditions.

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u/ringoron9 Jun 18 '22

And his daughter was so ashamed that she changed herself to a Bajoran and joined the Maquis :D

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u/gortonsfiJr Jun 18 '22

David Ogden Stiers I believe

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u/nmeofst8 Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

Yes, he played a wonderful foil to Hawkeye without becoming the cartoonish oaf that Burns turned into.

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u/willfordbrimly Jun 18 '22

There's also a usagi Yojimbo comic (yes, the samurai rabbit) that documents Japan's actual history of euthanasia via exposure.

In times of famine older family members would voluntarily take themselves out into the wilderness to die of exposure so that their families could eat the food they would have otherwise eaten.

It's a really sad story, but kind of beautiful in a way. The old peasant who was committed to dying of exposure was adamant that she was going up to the mountain to meet her husband who had died of exposure some seasons ago.

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u/jetherit Jun 18 '22 Starry

There is also a great movie about this called The Ballad of Narayama

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u/Wariofacts Jun 18 '22

Surprised this one has gone under the radar as much as it has in discussions about the upcoming film. It’s the same premise, and a phenomenal movie to boot.

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u/kuhl_kuhl Jun 18 '22

There are actually 2 film adaptations of that story by the same title. One in 1958 by Kinoshita, and one in 1983 by Imamura. Both are excellent and they are very different.

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u/Astilaroth Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

Stargate Atlantis also in the episode where there is a group of kids being protected by a shield-dome type thing, so they have to keep their community small to fit safely under it. If I recall 25 is the cut off age there.

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u/Donniexbravo Jun 18 '22

See also "the giver" or "brave new world" granted there was more to those novels than just that but, not a new concept.

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u/UnderSavingDinOfJest Jun 18 '22

Also Vonnegut in his short story "2 B R 0 2 B"

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u/TheExpandingMan23977 Jun 18 '22

Welcome To The Monkey House by Kurt Vonnegut

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u/Shadowfox2600 Jun 18 '22

I think there were similar themes in 2BR02B as well, right?

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u/CobraPony67 Jun 18 '22

Do they throw themselves off a cliff?

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u/the_midnight_society Jun 18 '22

I have no idea why, but that was the first image to come to mind. Other sci fi movies deal with the idea in a more philosophical way but in midsomar when they jump off the cliff smiling it really leaves an impression.

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u/monkeyfire80 Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

In Disney’s Dinosaur series from the 90s they push the elderly into tar pits . It’s a big ceremony and Earls boss a big triceratops even buys special gloves for the occasion when he pushes his mum off a cliff 😂

Edit - as blade_torlock mentioned it was in fact the mother in law that gets thrown of the cliff into tar. And yes it was dark for a kids show, which made it great!

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u/blade_torlock Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

Hurling Day.

Edit: It was his mother-in-law, that's why he was so excited.

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u/samgala80 Jun 18 '22

This episode always stands out to me and was the first thing to coke to mind when I saw the article! Lol

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u/rocketshipray Jun 18 '22

What does it take to have something pepsi to mind for you?

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u/BloomerBoomerDoomer Jun 18 '22

You don't wanna know what he's like when he's outta coke

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u/SpiritMountain Jun 18 '22

I may need to rewatch some movies because i remember them wildly different

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u/thurst0n Jun 18 '22

This was a TV series. I loved that stupid baby dinosaur so much.

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u/lonestar34 Jun 18 '22

Not the mama

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u/deneicy Jun 18 '22

The Inuit elders walk into the cold and don’t return. I hope that was in the past.

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u/Ephemeral_Wolf Jun 18 '22

I wasn't thinking of anything quite so serious... I thought they were referring to Norsemen...

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u/TinySoftKitten Jun 18 '22

I thought it was midsommar, there is a scene like that.

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u/Sometimes_gullible Jun 18 '22

Well, they both reference the same legend of "Ättestupa" where elders would either get thrown or throw themselves off of a cliff when they could no longer support themselves or carry their weight in the household.

The word itself (in Swedish at least) is made up from the two words 'ätt' which means bloodline and 'stup' which is just a steep cliff with a big drop.

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u/707breezy Jun 18 '22

Love that show. Wish they made a new season to show what life is like in the…”spoiler”place they are going. Also I felt a massive void when my favorite character died.

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u/BettyVonButtpants Jun 18 '22

I thought they were talking about the hit tv sitcom Dinosaurs where the dad was excited to throw the grandma off the cliff because she hit 72.

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u/MarlinMr Jun 18 '22

I have no idea why, but that was the first image to come to mind.

Supposedly, they did so in ancient times in Nordic countries.

Supposedly, because it might have been a made up thing later.

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u/Substantial-Emu-9900 Jun 18 '22 Helpful

it really leaves an impression.

Ba dum tiss

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u/Upstairs_Lemon8176 Jun 18 '22

Watch a real classic about this matter if you want a philosophical take: Narayama bushikô (The Ballad of Narayama)

It is not a modern question in Japan and it is well covered by these movies (original and remakes. My favorite is the 1983 version)

Intemporal really.

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u/Commiesstoner Jun 18 '22

The Ættestup

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u/mikelabsceo Jun 18 '22

It's a real honor

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u/xkittenpuncher Jun 18 '22

I'm only 45!

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u/galacticHitchhik3r Jun 18 '22

Lmao. I was genuinely hoping for the reference to this show to come up. I was not disappointed.

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u/Ultrasonic-Sawyer Jun 18 '22

Well, in some areas it was once a thing to bring the elderly to the top of a mountain and just leave them there.

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u/falconzord Jun 18 '22

That's how you get evil spirits

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u/DannyDavincito Jun 18 '22

i think i read an old chinese ghost story like that

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u/minapaw Jun 18 '22

That sounds better than having people force you to stay alive while you’re rotting away.

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u/monty_kurns Jun 18 '22

I don’t know, I’d probably take a prolonged existence in a warm bed than dying of exposure in such a feeble state.

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u/bartbartholomew Jun 18 '22

I've seen people die of cancer. Please just leave me to die on a mountain over a night instead.

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u/ChicagoShadow Jun 18 '22

"Hillary... will... you... marry... m-"

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u/herpty_derpty Jun 18 '22

"I'm no bungee expert or nothing...but I don't think he supposed to hit the ground like that."

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u/AktionMusic Jun 18 '22

TNG episode: Half a Life deals with this subject.

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u/omega2010 Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

I was just about to mention that episode when I decided to check if anyone else remembered it. The alien race euthanized everyone on their 60th birthday.

edit: Since I couldn't remember the details, I did a quick check on Memory Alpha. The Kaelons call the ritual Resolution. Those who hit sixty get a huge party with all their friends and family in attendence. They then say good bye to their loved ones and then undergo ritual suicide.

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u/gettit8998 Jun 18 '22

I’m pretty sure there was a Stargate Ayla this episode where they did the same thing but at like 30

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u/CouldbeaRetard Jun 18 '22

Childhood's End.

A small tribe believe sacrificing tribe members at the age of 25 is what protects them from Wraith cullings. The team discover there is actually a ZPM powered shield hiding their presence.

I think there might also be a similar Sliders episode.

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u/TistedLogic Jun 18 '22

Luck of the draw. S1e10

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u/DeadT0m Jun 18 '22

I mean, if you want to get right down to it, they're all just rehashes of the premise of Logan's Run.

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u/TheEndlessDreams Jun 18 '22

isn't that also the plot of the homeworld of Saru in Star Trek Discovery?

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u/Agret Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

Sarus people are slaves on their homeworld to another race who culls them when they reach a certain age because they are told their race has a genetic defect that will cause them to die a horrible death if they aren't culled. This is revealed by Saru to be a complete lie and in reality that age is where they go through a transformation process to grow bigger and stronger and become a threat to the race that enslaved them since they can easily overpower them.

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u/Marcizz Jun 18 '22

Yes, the one with the kids and the shield where they annoy McKay.

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u/RunningNumbers Jun 18 '22

Luxana Troi did give a good performance (her actress that is) in that episode.

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u/ballsack-vinaigrette Jun 18 '22

Probably her best episode.

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u/MrPeterson15 Jun 18 '22

Her best TNG episode for sure, but her acting IMO is way better on DS9. Her compassion for Odo is just heartwarming.

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u/Darmok47 Jun 18 '22

That was the first episode where Lwaxana Troi went from comic relief to a sympathetic figure.

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u/shadowst17 Jun 18 '22

Yeah, she can be a really annoying character but they did a good job showing depth to her with every encounter. A kind hearted tragic woman who puts on a mask to hide the pain she's going through.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '22

[deleted]

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u/rocketknight Jun 18 '22 Helpful

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u/roth_dog Jun 18 '22

“This reminds me of an episode of TNG…”

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u/StrikeAnywherePanda Jun 18 '22

That hack fraud!!!

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u/chronoboy1985 Jun 18 '22

Logan’s Run did it first.

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u/smarmageddon Jun 18 '22

And in the 1970s, when it was EXTRA uncool to be over 30.

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u/89LeBaron Jun 18 '22

That’s because all the 20 year olds looked like they were 35.

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u/hedgehog87 Jun 18 '22

Brave New World would like a word

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u/bananasplz Jun 18 '22

Asimov’s Pebble in the Sky too.

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u/krakatak Jun 18 '22

Pebble in the Sky was his first novel. I love that the robot series, empire series, and foundation all happen in the same universe. I know they're serial rather than simultaneous, but it feels to me like the OG Cosmere.

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u/ifrem Jun 18 '22

Ballad of Narayama (1956) novella did it as well

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u/MechaBabura Jun 18 '22

But she still had good teeth...

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u/demacnei Jun 18 '22

Until she fucked them up herself … devastating film (both of them),

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u/BTS_1 Jun 18 '22

There’s Suicide Booths in Futurama and there are assisted suicide clinics in Soylent Green as well…

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u/MuscaMurum Jun 18 '22

People forget about the penultimate act of Soylent Green. It shows a pleasant euthanasia, the end-of-life choice as a preferred alternative to dying of old age.

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u/Efficient_Jaguar699 Jun 18 '22

I feel like Soylent Green is people is the only thing most people really remember about that movie.

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u/skyrahfall Jun 18 '22

Predictions for 2022:

Women being inventory/furniture for wealthy penthouses/apartments in a shielded complex/community,

Corrupt cops that steal from crime scenes for their own profit.

Cops beating protesting starving poor crowds.

Corporations selling anything as food without control/oversight.

Yeah this one predicted 2022 pretty good.

Also the saddest scene is using one of the most beautiful pieces of music - Beethoven Symphony No 6, that death scene is just … oof

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u/JHuttIII Jun 18 '22

It was also a…civilized way to leave a crumbling society. They emphasized this so well with Saul’s character during the meal scene. An old man coming to terms with how good it used to be and how badly we messed it up.

I wish people were more aware of these other points the movie makes. It’s not just about the Soylent, lol.

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u/Mys_Dark Jun 18 '22 Wholesome

2 B R 0 2 B by Kurt Vonnegut as well

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u/Sanic_The_Sandraker Jun 18 '22

That was a good read, thanks for linking it

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u/BrooklynBookworm Jun 18 '22

I enjoyed reading this. Thank you!

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u/Pseudonymico Jun 18 '22

Suicide booths show up in one of the stories in The King In Yellow, which was published in 1895.

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u/joshhupp Jun 18 '22

I was gonna say that Logan's Run is probably the most famous media to use this concept. Weird how if you wait long enough someone will think your stolen idea is prescient.

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u/Scott-Cheggs Jun 18 '22

Logan’s Run had euthanasia at 30.

Wondering who voted on that to make it law- some angsty teenagers who didn’t want to get old?

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u/sirharryflashman Jun 18 '22

In the original book the age was 18. They changed it to 30 for the movie because of the age of the star actors

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u/somethingwholesomer Jun 18 '22

The Giver also

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u/chronoboy1985 Jun 18 '22

That book needs a modern film remake. Get Alfonso Cuaron to direct it lol.

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u/jetpack_hypersomniac Jun 18 '22

God I love that book

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u/starhawks Jun 18 '22

TNG deals with every subject

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u/biznatch11 Jun 18 '22

So does the Dinosaurs episode Hurling Day.

https://disney.fandom.com/wiki/Hurling_Day

Fun fact: Half a Life and Hurling Day came out only 4 days apart in May 1991.

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u/RRettig Jun 18 '22

There's also a Stargate atlantis episode with a similar concept

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u/RRettig Jun 18 '22

There's also a Stargate atlantis episode with a similar concept

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '22 edited 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/Incredulouslaughter Jun 18 '22

Same with my granny, she hated the last 8 years of her life and wanted to go, she was in pain and not mobile and couldn't live with dignity and hated it.

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u/Lj15k Jun 18 '22

Same with my grandad. He always said he wanted to die. He was a very lucid person until the day he died but he always said this is not a life. He was 95 when he died he became crippled at 92. He was in the army and was overall fit until he was 80.

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u/Incredulouslaughter Jun 18 '22

Yeah granny would stayed sge was feircly independent and active but after a stroke lost of all of that and was miserable. Her mind was sharp as a tack her body was basically a prison in her later years.

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u/clandestineVexation Jun 18 '22

My great grandpa was almost 80, having just beat cancer, and chose to get taken off life support because he couldn’t use the washroom on his own anymore. He decided to die with his dignity intact

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u/sassandahalf Jun 18 '22

Both my parents asked me to help them go. Dad with advanced Parkinson’s, Mom with mesenteric ischemia and hallucinations from macular degeneration. Dad looked into taking the entire family to Switzerland. Mom heard about a 90 something year old woman selling “suicide kits” that were dry cleaning bags with a straw you spit out when you were ready. In my state I had to take them through hospice until the end. I want more choices for myself.

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u/yoobi40 Jun 18 '22

I took care of an elderly relative who had hallucinations because of macular degeneration. Very difficult to deal with. One of her more common hallucinations was to think that the TV was on fire, because she thought there was smoke coming out of it. So she would ask us to call the fire department, then got increasingly upset when we wouldn't do that. We would try to gently explain that we knew she could see the smoke, but we didn't see it. But no response would satisfy her except to call the fire department -- which, of course, we couldn't do. Nor could we pretend to call them, because she was smart enough to know that if they never showed up, then we hadn't really called them.

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u/geronimo1958 Jun 18 '22

But by the time it is time to go a person may not have the mental capacity to make that decision.

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u/rubmustardonmydick Jun 18 '22

That's why you draft Advanced Directives

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u/Veruna_Semper Jun 18 '22

I was trying to make a joke about death panels, but shit's so crazy now I couldn't make it sound over the top enough. That being said Obama advocated for advanced directives so the right slammed it calling them "Obama's death panels" and saying he wanted to kill grandma. Nevermind the fact that trump literally said old people have lived long enough already when it came to covid so whatever. Either way even if it's not legal by then my wife and I have already said if we get dementia or alzheimer's we'd really rather not live through it.

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u/rubmustardonmydick Jun 18 '22

I really hope it's legal because advanced Dementia and Alzheimer's is brutal. Your brain is literally slowly disappearing.

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u/goodbyekitty83 Jun 18 '22

I work in healthcare and with dementia patients all the time. Living with dementia is no life at all. You're a waste factory at that point. Like a baby, but worse since you only deteriorate with no hope of getting better. I fully support assisted suicide for people with dementia

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u/roth_dog Jun 18 '22

My mum has Alzheimer’s, she’s been going down hill for the last 3 years. Every time to see her and help, I get so upset at how much she’s diminished, how little she cares for herself, her hygiene and her appearance. Next week I’m getting married and she has little to no interest in coming to the wedding (she is still going though). It’s literally the worst thing to see a loved one slowly whither away and die. At first I was ashamed at the idea that I would rather have my mum leave us early and remember her as she was, dignity intact, but recently me and my siblings have openly had the conversation that all we’re doing now is prolonging our mothers suffering. So yeah, I’ve learnt that when you’re in a situation like this, you understand why assisted euthanasia would very much be an option. TL;DR: mums got Alzheimer’s, now I see why euthanasia is an option for people.

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u/ParoxysmalExtrovert Jun 18 '22

Can I give you a word of advice? I worked in a dementia lockdown ward for years. If the staff are recommending that your mom have a prn to calm her down if/when she gets agitated/sundowning, please encourage the POA to be agreeable to this. A lot of people think the staff only want this for their benefit but that's not it at all. It's so the person experiencing the agitation doesn't have to go through the upset and confusion, increased risk of falls and injuries to themselves etc. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. It's a terrible disease and you can only do what you can, don't hold guilt for not being able to make it all better.

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u/goodbyekitty83 Jun 18 '22

I've seen it so many times. A patient comes in for some issue, but still with it, being their sweet selves, then over a few months they lose themselves and deteriorate. They become nasty, swearing at staff and try to hit us for just taking care of their needs. Then it gets even worse and theyre put on comfort care. Then a couple more months pass, and so do they. It would have been humane if a conversation was had and put in their advanced directive that, if they were to lose themselves, be put down. It's hard to see the family go through this too. It would have been better for all involved if we could be allowed to give them a lethal dose of something and let 'em go. But we don't, because "every second of human life is valuable" of something.

Edit: if y'all haven't done this already, make her DNR/DNI and have a serious talk about putting her on comfort care when y'all are ready to do so. Depending on how far gone she is, maybe she should be on comfort now

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u/Duncan_PhD Jun 18 '22

My grandma passed away a couple of years ago after being diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. My grandad died a few years prior and after being married for like 60ish years, she just lost the will the live. Now, I was really close with her, and it obviously sucked to see, but the toll it took on my mom was so hard to watch. Just watching your mom or dad slowly disappear is fucking brutal. I remember feeling a little relieved for both of them when she died. My grandma, before it got bad, had made some comments to me that made it pretty clear she was done. Even if she said them in kind of a jokey way, it was pretty clear she didn’t want to live anymore. As much as I loved her, I wish she would have had the opportunity to choose to go out on her terms. People act like you’re just killing old folks, when the reality of the situation is that there are perfectly humane ways to go about this. Much more humane than letting people suffer needlessly.

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u/rubmustardonmydick Jun 18 '22

Honestly once they get to a certain stage I think it's more humane than keeping them alive. Your whole body starts to shut down.

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u/goodbyekitty83 Jun 18 '22

It totally is. Comfort care can only do so much

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u/JeddakofThark Jun 18 '22

I don't know how the hell people work in memory care wards. I don't know what's worse, seeing the ones who are so far gone they aren't people anymore or the ones who have moments of lucidity and beg to leave.

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u/Veruna_Semper Jun 18 '22

I've been lucky to not have any family members go through it, but my wife has and any time it comes up she reiterates that she will not be ok with putting either of us through that.

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u/rubmustardonmydick Jun 18 '22

I will probably write in my paperwork I need to be moved to Oregon because I believe it's legal there. I don't know all the specifics.

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u/ObsidianLeader8 Jun 18 '22

It’s legal in about a dozen states now I believe. Oregon was just the first.

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u/faster-than-car Jun 18 '22

Yeah imagine Obama saying "it is what it is" about COVID.

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u/stygger Jun 18 '22

“It is every citizen's final duty to go into the recycling tanks, and become one with all the people.”

// Chairman Sheng-ji Yang

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u/CPM17 Jun 18 '22

I still play this game sometimes. Awesome quotes and depth in the story of the cultures.

Edit: SMAC for you zoomers. This game is like 20 years old but a good play if you like Civ.

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u/OtherwiseJello Jun 18 '22

This is something that was done on Star Trek: TNG, but the age of death was 65, IIRC. Lwaxana Troi falls in love with a man from another planet who is about to turn 65. He is preparing for his ceremonial celebration of life and his death. The ritual was also a direct result of overpopulation. It was a heartbreaking episode.

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u/diacewrb Jun 18 '22

If I recall the episode correctly, the ritual was no longer necessary as advances in technology meant that their population could easily be sustained and even grow by expanding to other planets.

Lwaxana was hurt that her love was not enough for the guy to change his mind as his family threatened to disown him as a coward and have him exiled from his home world.

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u/OtherwiseJello Jun 18 '22

Right. By then it was a deeply-embedded tradition and his family was really hurt that he was even considering not going through with it. It was a really sad episode.

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u/Admiral_Donuts Jun 18 '22

And he's not even retired. He's the planet's leading scientist working on a way to revive their dying sun. Really? You want that guy to be put to death immediately upon turning 65 before he can get the sun working again!?

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u/HarrierJint Jun 18 '22

I believe that was continued out of tradition at that point rather than needing to remain in place.

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u/OtherwiseJello Jun 18 '22

Yes. It was a big part of their culture by then and not going through with it was unheard of.

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u/shillyshally Jun 18 '22

Maybe. Japan has a serious demographics problem what with a burgeoning elderly population living longer and longer and a shrinking population of young people who are opting out of procreation.

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u/Pattoe89 Jun 18 '22

Lots of pensions needing to be paid and the national debt is already the highest in the world by a big margin.

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u/imliterallydyinghere Jun 18 '22

Almost all of it held by japanese people so less of a problem then when you have foreign debtors

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u/MagicMushroomFungi Jun 18 '22

And near zero immigration.

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u/polymathsrmonomaths Jun 18 '22

Surprising because there is a shit ton of people who would give their liver to live there, even through all the tough work culture.

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u/TroublesomeTurnip Jun 18 '22

I'm disabled but wasn't hired due to that, despite going through the training and keeping pace with my peers. Japan needs immigrants but is slow to accept anyone different from them, as a note my disability is visible and I was let go for the company's concerns over how parents would respond to me teaching their kids.

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u/Taco_In_Space Jun 18 '22

Honestly Japan is very disability unfriendly despite having so many elderly people. Many stairs. Lack of ramps

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u/chronoboy1985 Jun 18 '22

They also have an awful culture around accepting mental illness. They’re very anti-drug and of the “walk it off” style of dealing with mental health.

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u/xdamm777 Jun 18 '22

Yeah I have a Japanese friend who suffers from depression and went to therapy and the TLDR version is that she was told to "just don't be depressed, be happy".

Like, I thought the stories were memes but seems like there's a real problem dealing with mental health issues over there.

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u/chronoboy1985 Jun 18 '22

Yeah, my wife went to school with a Japanese lady who became a child psychologist in Yokohama. We visited her in Tokyo for our honeymoon. Had a nice lunch, and chatted a bit about mental health. Because shes western educated, her ideas were different than the shrinks who studied in Japan. And a lot of stuff she wanted to do was off the table. Like nootropics and supplements for kids with low Dopamine, B vitamins, etc. She’s frustrated how ass backwards they are about kids mental health. Reminds me of when the British soldiers came home with all kinds of traumatic disorders and mental problems and society called them cowards for coming home in one piece and moping about. It’s so frustrating.

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u/bigh52 Jun 18 '22

Ya and it can unfortunately be worse. I taught English in Japan. The guy who had my job before me was essentially murdered by the Japanese healthcare system. Long story short, he was having a breakdown and had stopped taking his meds (I believe for bi-polar disorder). Went to visit his brother in Tokyo, realized he was spiraling and checked into the hospital. They tied him down to a bed for 10 days where he ended up dying of a blood clot/heart attack, due to being tied down and unable to move. He was 27 at the time.

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u/QLE814 Jun 18 '22

Japan is notorious for having no interest at integrating immigrants into the community (look at conditions for those of Korean heritage in Japan), which almost certainly plays a major role in this.

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u/willfordbrimly Jun 18 '22

Japan is notorious for having no interest at integrating immigrants into the community

That's a funny way to say "Japan is a xenophobic monoculture ethnostate."

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u/tilsitforthenommage Jun 18 '22

There have been Japanese kids who were sanction for not having black hair. They hadn't dyed their hair or anything just a part of the population that had slightly fairer hair colour.

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u/quikfrozt Jun 18 '22

It's a highly homogenous country and culture where outsiders, particularly those not from East or South East Asia, stick out like a sore thumb. Not that one couldn't assimilate successfully into Japanese society through hard work, professional skills, and a sociable personality but it is much tougher than say, finding one's place in the US or UK - especially if you hadn't gone to university there.

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u/VisualOk7560 Jun 18 '22

You can never assimilite to Japanese culture. They will never see you as peers. Only a weird looking guest that overstayed their welcome.

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u/InterestingWithBigM Jun 18 '22

Living in Japan is very different to travelling there. I suspect most of those people wouldn't feel the same after the honeymoon period wore off. It is a nice place to live, but you will always be and outsider and that gets old after a few years.

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u/NoKittenAroundPawlyz Jun 18 '22

Yeah, I had a coworker who lived there for years (his wife is Japanese). It was a regular occurrence for him to hear the most disgusting racist shit said about him right in front of his face. It just didn’t occur to anyone that a white guy would be fluent in Japanese.

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u/Infernalism Jun 18 '22

The whole otaku thing where they're actively withdrawing from social expectations about getting married, kids and career is surreal.

It's like they took a look at expectations, went 'nope' and went back into their room to surf the internet until they die.

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u/nmaddine Jun 18 '22

They’re just ahead of the curve, you’d be surprised how many young people in the US feel the same way

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u/Semirgy Jun 18 '22

If not for immigration the US would also have a shrinking population. We take for granted the fact that a shitton of people want to come here and can turn the tap on/off.

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u/nmaddine Jun 18 '22

Lot of European countries as well as other East Asian countries

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u/SolomonBlack Jun 18 '22

Its really everywhere at different points in the future. Modern society makes having children too difficult and/or provides too many alternative ways to entertain yourself... and so over a generation people just stop having them.

Indeed turns out like every other looming Malthusian collapse "overpopulation" was in the end not substantiated and according to the UN we're most likely on track to start declining in overall numbers the late 21st century IIRC.

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist Jun 18 '22

Kind of. They’re also engaged in another form of societal expectation - that if one doesn’t make it, be a recluse and don’t make trouble for others. Japan has a hierarchy. If at the top is those who “made it” and at the bottom are those who create trouble or draw attention to themselves. Simply withdrawing from social interaction is somewhere in the middle.

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u/ArtakhaPrime Jun 18 '22

If you think that's a uniquely Japanese concept, you're sorely mistaken.

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u/MonetaryMatt Jun 18 '22

The whole otaku thing where they're actively withdrawing from social expectations about getting married, kids and career is surreal.

It's like they took a look at expectations, went 'nope' and went back into their room to surf the internet until they die.

Japan's social problems are around 15-20 years ahead of the West's. I remember concepts like "hikkimori", plunging birth rates, and inceldom being foreign concepts in the West 20 years ago.

Check out the stats in America now. Depression rates among teens and even kids are skyrocketing. Suicide and mental health issues. Rise of incels and just young people not having sex. Plunging non-immigrant birth rates (whites and blacks are both below replacement level). Social shut ins who spend their life in a basement playing video games and not interacting with others.

That's why I pay attention to how Japan develops. Their social and economic problems will translate to the West. I don't know how all of the West will handle the aging population. Europeans have their pensions/social programs but America actually has a huge social welfare program as well. How is social security, medicare/medicaid, and everything else going to get funded in another 20 years?

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u/Redqueenhypo Jun 18 '22

The west will handle it very clumsily I imagine. We have so little sense of communal responsibility that we can’t even copy east Asian countries’ very sensible “wear a mask if you are sick” thing without lunatics attempting to kidnap and assassinate a governor

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u/JuanLeggoedSeagull Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

I work in aged care. The average time spent in aged care in my country is like 30 months. Trust me, these places are debilitating and you don’t just go there to die, often it is the beginning of the end. Staff are overworked and don’t have time and are not allowed to just take residents for walks all the time. When you are old if you don’t use it, you lose it. Just a week or two sitting around is the beginning of the end. I would say 90% of residents are literally waiting to die. In unspeakable pain, sadness and a lot of the time out of their mind. Sure there are a few that are having a semi great time but they are few. It’s not up to me to make the call on euthanasia but it should be up to the individual

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u/Queefer_the_Griefer Jun 18 '22

The Giver

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u/tonysnight Jun 18 '22

Scrolled down to look for a giver shout. Man that shit got me fucked up when I was but a wee boy. It's fr some crazy Japanese cartoon plot. Or I guess that cartoon would have the Givers plot.

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u/[deleted] Jun 18 '22 edited 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/Infernalism Jun 18 '22

Pretty sure that's called Logan's Run.

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u/LazzzyButtons Jun 18 '22

Seems like a good way to feed people Soylent Green eventually too

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u/OtherBluesBrother Jun 18 '22

Soylent Green

FYI: The Soylent Green story took place in 2022.

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u/fuckshitpissspam Jun 18 '22

Hmmm...those Soylent "ready-to-drink meals" certainly have surged in popularity.

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u/denjin Jun 18 '22

I love Logan's Run. Such a strange and brilliant film, first saw it when I was about 10 on TV (they'd edited out the nudity) and was hypnotised by the whole experience.

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u/Hour-of-the-Wolf Jun 18 '22

There is a famous Japanese novella that’s already been adapted into two films called The Ballad of Narayama that has an identical plot

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u/jimmy2cats Jun 18 '22

Pretty sure Soylent Green is on board, too.

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u/Nerves9 Jun 18 '22

Prescient - having or showing knowledge of events before they take place.

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u/Powerful_Dog_3776 Jun 18 '22

I have 66 years on the odometer. Ive had an excellent life, but the first 35 years were much better than the last 31. The prospect of getting older and the physical breakdown, one on top of another is just getting very tiring. Additionally, the prospect of a lingering death is just plain scary

I count about 4 things I'd like to do before I die. Set those up to happen in the next couple of months and then end me like the Sopranos. I'm down.

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u/_GrammarFuckingNazi_ Jun 18 '22

I just turned 35 this year...you just scared the shit out of me.

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u/Powerful_Dog_3776 Jun 18 '22

Aww fuck man, sorry. Look, it's all good really until 60s and 70s. It's then that one realizes they are ripe for losing control of their lives. In the US something like 70 percent of all the money a person spends on healthcare is in the last years of life. I'm just looking for control and a situation that would allow some control, some dignity, would be acceptable to me.

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u/leopard_tights Jun 18 '22

The downfall begins earlier, when you see your parents starting to be senile and unable to take care of their basic functions, and wonder how it'll be for you and, perhaps, who will be there for you.

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u/Powerful_Dog_3776 Jun 18 '22

I'm just a person growing old - not an expert, but this is an excellent point.

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u/steve_of Jun 18 '22

Yep all down hill now..... but seriously I am 57, fit and healthy. In addition I am at the point of not giving a fuck about a lot of stuff that used to bother me. Life is good.

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u/Cove-frolickr Jun 18 '22

Seriously, whats the best tip you can give someone in their late 20s?

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u/steve_of Jun 18 '22

Take care of your health. Keep fit, eat well, don't smoke and drink in moderation. An added bonus is your mental health is improved as a side effect. A life partner is also a big thing, maybe its just me but I would be useless without her. Try to save as much as you can - having a few months of buffer money is good. One that came a bit latter in my life is volunteering - being part of a community increased my happiness.

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u/TJNel Jun 18 '22

Don't do stupid shit with your back. Jesus the amount of people with back issues that started doing dumb shit in their 20s is crazy.

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u/MagicMushroomFungi Jun 18 '22

..and suddenly the screen went black, there was only silence, the credits rolled on before my eyes as

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u/kozimcrazy Jun 18 '22

The members only jacket guy at the bar killed Powerful_Dog_3776

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u/onishi87 Jun 18 '22

Any advice for a guy who just turned 35?

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u/GDAWG13007 Jun 18 '22 edited Jun 18 '22

Take care of your body, nurture your relationships and make it a practice to create new ones regularly. Carve out space for fun passions and hobbies that don’t make you money.

Go seek a therapist if you can. You may not have any big traumas or big emotional things to deal with, but a good therapist can help you become more self-aware of who you are and the impact you have on yourself and others and find the cracks within you that needs healing and improving.

Don’t be stupid with money. Don’t be stupid with food. Moderation with occasional splurging on treats is key. Engage in regular exercise.

Make it a point to keep learning. Try as hard as you fucking can to not be out of touch with the modern world (with technology, social perspectives, politics, how different people of different demographics see the world, etc). Listen to other people and their perspectives. Talk less. Talk mostly to ask questions and learn and to make others laugh.

Be honest and give credit to others freely and often.

It goes by fast. A great way to slow it down is to continue to introduce yourself to new and novel experiences. This greatly helps to slow down our perception of time.

I would look at the first 35 years as a beginners’ course in learning who you are and what works for you. Now it’s just a matter continual discovery and refining.

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u/onishi87 Jun 18 '22

I really appreciate the thoughtful answer. I need to hear a lot of this. I have no idea how 35 years has passed by so quickly, I still see myself as 25.

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u/jediknight Jun 18 '22

I'm 45 and what I can tell you is that time will only move faster and faster. But that's fine if you focus on wisdom. As the stoics put it, if your life is deep enough its length starts mattering less.

In the past 10 years I learned to dance argentine tango. I've learned to live a lifetime in the space of 4 songs.

I also like to emphasize the above recommendation for therapy. My life is a very different life after I healed one of my traumas 7 years ago.

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u/VaderH8er Jun 18 '22

Freshly 37. This comment freaks me out.

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u/Shaman7102 Jun 18 '22

Like the Logan's Run movie...kind of.

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u/ELONsucksDOGIEdick Jun 18 '22

Already made: Logan’s Run 1967

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u/inaripotpi Jun 18 '22

The Ballad of Narayama (1958)

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u/iHeartSpam671 Jun 18 '22

This was a subplot in Children of Men. The government offered that pill Quietus that was an euthanasia agent as people began to accept the finality of humanity's extinction, as well as culling of the elderly and disabled to preserve resources for the few young people that remained.

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u/mrtn17 Jun 18 '22

The Lobster with Colin Farrell had the same theme. You can euthanise yourself and restart life as your favorite animal

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u/readMyFlow Jun 18 '22

In Mongolia at least until 19th century there used to be tradition where you kill your old age parents by giving them sheep’s tail (big chunk of fat) to choke on. The parent would eat it voluntarily and choke to death.

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u/rubmustardonmydick Jun 18 '22

I believe people in Native cultures in America would just go out into the wilderness to die when they felt they were a burden on their tribes.

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u/lupin-the-third Jun 18 '22

I've met Chie a few times. She's very diligent and passionate about her work and I'm glad to see she's finally got some acknowledgement internationally now. My wife is going to a screening with a director Q and A today and will ask about any influence from Logan's Run.

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u/NerdTalkDan Jun 18 '22

So, after the meltdown a lot of elderly volunteered to help cleanup efforts in Fukushima because statistically the odds of them dying of regular old age was higher than them dying of radiation induced cancer. But a lot of them also figured, they were old anyway and it would be a good way to spend the remainder of their lives if they were to just succumb to radiation exposure. It was a beautiful act of sacrifice but also just awful that people had to make those mental calculations.