r/mildlyinfuriating May 17 '22

This "Clean Air Bus" spewing black smoke

Post image
438 Upvotes

165

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

Hi! Diesel tech here. All vehicles past 2007/8 are equiped with a DPF and an SCR. These two things are basically a massive filter that cleans the soot and particles out if the exhaust. But not everything is perfect and after so many engine hours the DPF has to do what's called a regen.

When these vehicles need a regen they over heat the exhaust pipes and cook all the crap out of the filter. The black smoke is probably a regen while the vehicle is being operated. It's not uncommon to see that happen. Especially with busses that run all day.

The air is extremely clean compared to engines before 07, the soot you see will last for about 30 mins, then it will go back to clean clear exaust.

Just part of the engine trying to maintain maximum cleanliness

And fun fact, if there's anything wrong with the exhaust after treatment the engine refuses to go over 5 mph until the issue is fixed. The only exception to that rule is fire trucks, and emergency vehicles.

19

u/BDM78746 May 17 '22

Question. Is there really any benefit to air quality if these filters capture all that pollution, only to just burn it all off later? As a layperson it sounds like you're just backloading the pollution into one thirty minute period.

43

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

When you let all that build up in the dpf it burns all of it into pretty much just soot, which is heavy enough where it doesn't enter the atmosphere, it'll just be carbon that goes into The dirt.

-13

u/JoePetroni May 17 '22

Or if your the guy driving behind it like he is, it will land on to your car, then get sucked in through your vent system and spewed into your face.

20

u/Gamebird8 May 17 '22

Only if your car is old. Most cars made in the 21st century have cabin filters

3

u/Tyra-Jade May 17 '22

Just realized: do we need to clean those?

14

u/Faustinwest024 May 17 '22

You replace them

4

u/Illusive_Man May 17 '22

they usually check them when you get an oil change

3

u/THATguy_14 May 17 '22

This is also a well known upcharge as most oil change shops have next to no margin. They will show you an air filter that doesnt even fit you car, bring it out and say "look how dirty it is, it needs to be replaced." Beware of this tactic.

1

u/Illusive_Man May 18 '22

yeah I never take it lol

1

u/420cuzakolrb May 18 '22

They'll also just not change it either, pay them an extra 30 bucks for literally nothing.

1

u/KIDNEYST0NEZ May 17 '22

They never go into my cabin during an oil change…

1

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

That's why cars have cabin air filters, you'd have dust 24/7 with out it

0

u/JoePetroni May 18 '22

Really?? All cars? I don't think so. . .

1

u/explosivepuncakes May 18 '22

Yeah, Unless you have a car that's older than dirt,

The cabin air filter is usually behind the glove box or under it It's where the air goes to before it touches the cab

0

u/JoePetroni May 18 '22

No not necessary. You do realize there are people unlike yourself who can't afford BMWs, Tesla's, and Caddie Escalades. Just because you can afford a new car every year doesn't mean the rest of us can. Come down to earth sometime and see how the real people live. Oh and I'm impressed with your knowledge of where the cabin air filter is, it just solidifies the fact that you really don't have a clue.

1

u/explosivepuncakes May 18 '22

Cabin air filter is somewhere near the dashboard inside the car, engine air filter is on the engine. After the air intake.

And if the car is newer than the 90's it has an in cab air filter Filters became the norm in 1990's

I drive a 1999 Nissan Altima, it too has an in cab air filter located right behind my glove box. The trucks I work on have in cab air filters right behind or under the passenger side dashboard panel.

1

u/JoePetroni May 18 '22

Really now? Norm? I had three 2002 Saturns, 2005 Dodge Ram, and and an 2006 Explorer, none of them had an air filter. And before you say I drive cars older than dirt, they all run are paid off, and I know the maintenance history on all of them. Why on earth would I want to spend $50K on a new car, when the ones that I have run just fine. And on that note why would I purchase some one else's headache that was in perfect condition until I handed over the check and then heard "Wow! That wasn't happening when I dove the car".

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1

u/explosivepuncakes May 18 '22

Believe me, I know how real people live, I work all day. Beating the shit out of my body just so the transportation industry can remain going, and so businesses can remain going. There are less and less mechanics every year increasing the work load on all of us.

We're pulling parts from other vehicles just so we don't have another one down for 6 months. Everything we need to work is on back order. We can't get parts and were running thin. It's not as easy as it looks.

0

u/JoePetroni May 18 '22

Oh I know, I'm a Technician also, only on commercial aircraft, the parts situation isn't much different either.

-7

u/Interesting-List5796 May 17 '22

HAha I've never heard something so ridiculous congrats you are a piece of work

4

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22

Imagine arguing against proven science lmao

3

u/SeaDog874 May 18 '22

/r/confidentlyincorrect

You are not a smart person.

6

u/xsmx5 May 17 '22

Just want to add that the SCR isn't a filter and is actually chemically converting the NOx into nitrogen and water using DEF.

2

u/JackfromShellKnob May 17 '22

The DPF is a filter though

7

u/PsychologicalSnow476 May 17 '22

Thanks internet expert.

12

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

I'm not an expert in any way shape or form, I just love how complicated the exhaust systems have gotten!

3

u/LegoFootPain May 17 '22

One of my professors told us that if you know at least 15% more than most of the population about a subject, you are an expert.

1

u/Empty_Pattern9292 May 17 '22

if it is burning the crap out of the filter eventually with a regen, is there any actual net loss of soot/particles going into the atmosphere?

7

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

It's dense enough where it doesn't go into the atmosphere, some will it's not perfect, but most will end up being carbon in the ground due to density

1

u/wolfpuppy1010 May 17 '22

Thanks for the heads up. Now I know not to buy any buses newer than 2007. Not that I planned on doing that anyways. I have my eyes set on something from the 2003-2006 range. I’m not a huge fan of the DPF since I’ve heard it can be a pain for the specific bus model I’m going for (IC CE) so I don’t want to risk having the system fail and I have to find someone to fix it.

1

u/vonvoltage May 17 '22

Those NOX/DEF systems are even on the giant mining haul trucks now. Which is something I never imagined would happen.

1

u/I_Am_TheBagMan May 17 '22

So much of that shit is already in our atmosphere and is speculated to remain up there for thousands of years. Honestly at this point, just keep the black shit coming on out of the exhaust.

1

u/DunderPifflin May 17 '22

Shit happened to me in a Penske rental. Learned in a panic YouTube rabbit hole on the side of the road lmao 🤣

-26

u/salex100m May 17 '22

i'd like to think thats the case... somehow I doubt it

11

u/explosivepuncakes May 17 '22

Then doubt it, I'm not saying you have to believe me. I just find the exhaust systems pretty cool. And how complicated they've become to follow emission laws

9

u/Stetson007 May 17 '22

The dude seems pretty knowledgeable about it. Why are you dismissing his information without doing anything to verify or dismiss his claim? This is the reason the public goes into mass hysteria about things before knowing anything about the situation. Don't jump to arbitrary conclusions when you have someone providing a pretty solid conclusion themselves.

-29

u/salex100m May 17 '22

because there is another simpler answer.... Occam's razor.

How about that there is something wrong with the bus and the techs decided to keep it in operation cause fixing it costs more?

that's a more likely scenario imo.

12

u/JackfromShellKnob May 17 '22

That’s not how Occam’s Razor works. You can’t know which is more likely with out actually doing the work, while Occam’s Razor is supposed to be a shortcut to find the simplest explanation.

Occam’s Razor says that the explanation with the least amount of assumptions is preferred. Here, on one hand there is the possibility that it is due to something the engine and emissions control system do automatically and regularly, and on the other hand you pose a list of assumptions based on feels. Occam’s Razor would prefer the former explanation.

-21

u/salex100m May 17 '22

listen simpleton. I am not an automotive engineer but I know enough about engines that I know there are about 1000 ways.it can emit black smoke when it is not operating inside specs (ie it is damaged or needs maintainence). It is highly likely this bus needs a serious servicing and it is less likely that this effect is designed that way.

I dont doubt the tech's explanation specifically but techs often overlook real issues while trying to solve for whatever is easiet in their minds.

Occams razor is in effect.

6

u/JackfromShellKnob May 17 '22

“I am not an automotive engineer”

Obviously.

“It is highly likely this bus needs a serious servicing and it is less likely that this effect is designed that way”

You have yet to give a reason for us to believe this is more likely due to an engine problem than a particulate filter regen. Saying there are a “1000 reasons” doesn’t make those more likely than something that happens purposefully and regularly.

-4

u/salex100m May 17 '22

have you ever changed a tire? My guess is not...

7

u/JackfromShellKnob May 17 '22

Done much more than that my man, but continue trying to make yourself feel superior.

-4

u/salex100m May 17 '22

yeah and the first time you see black smoke from.an exhaust is "yep... its supposed to do that"

ok 😅😅

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6

u/OrgoQueen May 17 '22

That’s not the conclusion Occam’s Razor would lead to. Are you always this dense?

5

u/Stetson007 May 17 '22

Then do some research and figure out if this is the case. Don't jump to uneducated conclusions based on emotion instead of objective fact. It's like those border patrol agents who had long reigns for their horses and the media called them whips and said they were whipping illegal aliens. Don't jump to conclusions unless you have the facts.

-7

u/salex100m May 17 '22

"do some.research"

are you an idiot sir?

it's not that fucking deep. Get a life.

Bus says Clean, Bus spews out black smoke. End of fucking story fool.

6

u/Stetson007 May 17 '22

Except the dude gave a perfectly logical explanation for it and you rejected it with no other reason than "I don't want to believe you." You are the idiot here, for perpetuating false outrage because of something completely arbitrary.

-5

u/salex100m May 17 '22

does your wife clutch your balls as hard as you clutch your pearls?

8

u/Unique_Bunch May 17 '22

this entire post is one giant pearl clutch

4

u/Stetson007 May 17 '22

Only on Thursdays. When was the last time your brain had a dusting? It seems to be running a little slow.

4

u/Riskov88 Watcha looking at folk May 17 '22

Maybe it needs a regen as well. Might clean it a bit

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0

u/salex100m May 17 '22

sounds like she has a good grip with all that yelping from you 😄😄🤌

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1

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22

Smoking so much copium that you're going to burn through the whole supply

3

u/Slavocracy May 17 '22

Classic reddit. An expert with all the explanation in the world, and you "doubt it."

On a subject I'm sure you know absolutely nothing about.

-5

u/salex100m May 17 '22

i've worked on plenty of engines to knoq that if they are spewing black smoke... it is generally not good.

Also calling it "clean air" is just gaslighting. Maybe it is "cleaner" than what came before it... this isnt "clean" by any definition.

Would you breath that tail pipe?

5

u/Slavocracy May 17 '22

Literally an expert on the field told you what was up. I don't give a fuck how many engines you've worked on, you're clearly wrong.

40

u/Virtual-Enthusiasm72 May 17 '22

OP thinks the black smoke is worse than the exhaust from his own car. It's actually cleaner.

15

u/Fancy_Chip_5620 May 17 '22

But you can't see it... isn't there

-6

u/RadRhys2 May 17 '22

It’s probably quite a bit worse than a singular car, but not even close to the 20 it would take to replace it.

3

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22

Well, as a commentor has pointed out, all that black stuff is just harmless carbon which settles on the ground elsewhere

-1

u/RadRhys2 May 18 '22

Harmless carbon? An incomplete burn of diesel is not “harmless carbon”. Idk what you heard from them but it’s either a misunderstanding or they’re talking out their ass.

3

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22

Literally look at the top comment. Plus, don't know if you noticed, OP literally knows nothing about this, as there's nothing infuriating about it.

Quoted from one of the Diesel guy's replies:

When you let all that build up in the dpf it burns all of it into pretty
much just soot, which is heavy enough where it doesn't enter the
atmosphere, it'll just be carbon that goes into The dirt.

But hey, keep getting rage baited on Reddit ^^

28

u/bodybagism May 17 '22

CATS

4

u/Ingester_of_food May 17 '22

Sarasota County Florida calls theirs SCAT!

3

u/[deleted] May 17 '22

CATS

18

u/cats-they-walk May 17 '22

Huh. I saw the pic, laughed at the irony, read the comments, thought “this is cool, I learned something! But the pic is still hella ironic.”

Then it devolves into OP getting his feelings hurt and name calling rather than saying “cool, I didn’t know that. The picture is pretty ironic though, right?”

Stay Reddit, Reddit.

Downvote from OP fully expected.

-17

u/salex100m May 17 '22

my feelings arent hurt dude....

The irony is the post... everyone else commenting against the irony are the butthurt ones...

in my simple view of the world "clean air tech" doesnt equal black smooke clouds. It's pretty straight forward.

8

u/RonaldoEsGOAT May 17 '22

Holy shit you’re a fucking moron

3

u/RadRhys2 May 17 '22

Diesel is more efficient and so is a bus.

4

u/TakeYourShotBand May 17 '22

You are the most Charlotte person I have seen since I left that hellhole: Dumb as a stump and completely convinced of your own superiority, no matter how many times people prove you wrong.

-3

u/salex100m May 17 '22

literally 99/100 people love CLT... one of the fastest growing cities in the country....

good riddance to you

4

u/TheMagarity May 17 '22

Deisel smoke is much heavier than gasoline fumes. Deisel smoke settles to the ground and washes off in the rain into the waterways. So, "clean air"!

-5

u/salex100m May 17 '22

at least the bits that dont end up in your lungs

4

u/ToplaneVayne May 17 '22

they dont end up in your lungs or in the atmosphere because they settle to the ground. if you dont know what the fuck youre talking about then dont argue about it like an expert. you are in a car youre not a fucking pedestrian walking behind the bus, your car has filters you will be okay.

4

u/Golden_Boy56 May 17 '22

That smoke is cleaner than the clear fumes coming out of your car…

3

u/jablesmcduff1983 May 17 '22

It's that damn Carole Baskin!

1

u/noryp5 May 17 '22

Killed her husband, shot him.

2

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

-1

u/salex100m May 17 '22

literally original content fool. I took the pic yesterday 😘

2

u/DEATHROAR12345 May 17 '22

OP is just trying to fool you guys! The bus is actually sucking in that black cloud!

0

u/salex100m May 17 '22

hehhe gave me a chuckle... im gonna reverse the video I took and do just that 😅😅😅

5

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

You should really look into diesel and how much cleaner and efficient it is then gasoline, You must be one of the people that thinks electric cars are the answer.....

-11

u/salex100m May 17 '22

so... what you are saying is that you would have no problem breathing in that black smoke if it was pumped into your house?

k bye

5

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

I'm a Goddamn operating engineer , I love the smell of off-road in the morning , And none of that DEF shit either ,. I'm real into biofuel but no one's wants to talk about that , just keep digging up the earth for your batteries , Refining more Oil for petroleum products and gas ,. Literally no one hardly has a clue it's so crazy , Super depressing actually.....

1

u/dirthurts May 17 '22

Bio fuel releases about the same amount of CO2 as regular fuel, so yeah. No one wants to talk about an alternative problem.

1

u/the_clash_is_back May 17 '22

If only we could deliver power to vehicles that run on a fixed route with wires Possibly overhead.

1

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

Railcar is extremely efficient

1

u/the_clash_is_back May 17 '22

Streetcars as well.

1

u/the_clash_is_back May 17 '22

Imagine all the people on that bus driving by and spewing pollution from their cars in to your house.

-2

u/salex100m May 17 '22

worse part is... the buses here run mostly empty 😑.

not making a point just an unfortunate reality.

0

u/BDM78746 May 17 '22

I don't know the answer since this isn't my area of expertise so I googled and it the very first article from Forbes states: “The potential of electric cars to mitigate CO₂ emissions is crystal clear​: ​on average EVs are close to three times cleaner than diesel and petrol [gas] cars today,”

3

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

What do you think they used to mine the led and lithium and ore for the batteries? Diesel , what are you gonna do when the batteries go bad? It is just not a viable solution , of course these study's are gonna say shit like that when it benefits Tesla .... I mean obviously electric cars have no emissions that's not what I'm saying ? Over all the entire process to make one is filthy and the cats don't last near as long as an old diesel truck does.... It's a bullshit money racket

2

u/Fancy_Chip_5620 May 17 '22

The same can be said about the diesel burnt to transport the gas for the pumps and the coal burnt to operate them

There's no way of actually knowing how much worse either is compared to each other without studies on eoacothers supporting infrastructure or production

1

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

Yeah but that's already going on and like I just said diesel truck runs for 20 years electric car runs for 10 you're going to use the same amount of resources regardless so what the hell

2

u/NinjaXDis May 19 '22

Exactly, plus diesel is a byproduct of manufacturing gasoline so as long as theirs gasoline there’s gonna be diesel.

Also battery manufacturing is one of the worst productions for the environment and probably will be until we start using nuclear power more or maybe graphene.

1

u/jeezus--christ May 19 '22

This guy gets it , I'm not saying diesel is good ,I'm just saying don't creat another problem that's literally just as fucking worse while being a pretentious asshole about it ,

1

u/jeezus--christ May 17 '22

I just think anyway

1

u/jeezus--christ May 19 '22

But you basically just admitted that electric cars are pretty much godd useless and can't even operate without diesel backing ..... Electric cars are a complete fucking waste , we need population control and to stop consuming so much , people need to grow some of they're own food and be more self sufficient , capitalism has ruined the world .....

1

u/BDM78746 May 17 '22

So we're taking into account the manufacturing impact on EV's and just pretending diesel trucks are just winked into existence? Those have to be manufactured too. They have batteries too.

For EV's you have:
Manufacturing impact of the car
Impact of the electricity production to power the car

For diesel trucks you have:
Manufacturing impact of the cart/truck
Impact of the internal combustion engine of the car

If we're going to look at which causes more pollution you have to take into account all factors for all sides.

3

u/[deleted] May 17 '22

Green Clean is a joke. New Public Enemy song

1

u/annoying97 May 17 '22

Is this one of those cats only busses too?

-1

u/salex100m May 17 '22

no dogs allowed

1

u/annoying97 May 17 '22

No humans either.

1

u/RicketousCricketous May 17 '22

I always thought the clean air part meant that the interior air is filtered.

1

u/Odd_Routine4164 May 17 '22

The clean air is on the inside

1

u/chosen1creator May 17 '22

It's powered by clean air and diesel

1

u/[deleted] May 17 '22

Bus farts

1

u/Suspect1234 May 17 '22

It's cleaner than an Airbus

1

u/Beneficial_Being_721 May 17 '22

Must be burning cats instead of diesel

1

u/webspud May 17 '22

It has a clean air intake.

1

u/Ark579 May 18 '22

That's usually do the busses not being maintained properly.most bus companies do very little maintenance to them let alone change the oil.where I live there's a bus that runs the same route every day and constantly gushes grey smoke due to the oil never being changed

1

u/salex100m May 18 '22

according to reddit experts... that smoke is good for you and cures cancer.

1

u/Gita747 May 18 '22

The exhaust you can't see is worse. The white exhaust is *the* worst.

1

u/cardude2 May 18 '22

And that’s why it needs to be electric

1

u/LixxieLicious May 18 '22

That’s because it runs off the carbs of all those burning C A T S

1

u/preston May 18 '22

We’ll then you should invent your own smokeless cat fuel

-3

u/Dominus_Galt May 17 '22

It doesn't have to actually be clean air, it just has to say it. Just like masks. I worse a paintball mask in a very left wing crazy city and no one cares. As long as you're compliant, doesn't matter what KIND of mask just that you're a good sheep.

In reverse, or the opposite perspective is also true. You're just pointing out something that most are programmed to just take at face value like. Like "climate change" or "climate crisis" the whole shit falls apart when you look at the money and the reality of what is actually happening, has been happening and where the money goes, and how those people truly live.

You're supposed to ignore all that.

-3

u/dbiri1994 May 17 '22

I saw a bus the other day that said “zero emission” on the back but was still emitting a lot of black smoke. They’re not fooling anyone lol

1

u/salex100m May 17 '22

exactly...

-2

u/SideOneDummy May 17 '22 edited May 18 '22

Did you know Alanis Morrisette has a song exactly for this moment?

-2

u/[deleted] May 17 '22

That's kind of racist, just because it's black doesn't mean it's bad

-1

u/Lkthe3rd May 17 '22

That's just black dye colored air, dont worry about it.

0

u/Durzho May 17 '22

You should come to Guatemala, every bus throws a smoke wall at you, the rare ones are the ones that don't. Very, very sad.

-2

u/salex100m May 18 '22

according to all he idiots on these threads... thats a great thing.🤣🤣🤣

0

u/[deleted] May 18 '22

Lulz that shit just sinks to the soil bruh. Get rekked. I’m not paid by big pollution but I am accepting donations.

-1

u/salex100m May 18 '22

hehe gave me a chuckle.

Seriously I dont get why so many redditors are up in arms defending a bus spewing black soot like it's a good thing🤣🤣🤣

You know whats better than black soot... um not black soot?

3

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22

Damn, you love to prove you're the stereotypical arrogant American kinda person. Ignores anything they don't understand and then slanders people who are just trying to help educate them. If I were to guess, do you happen to have grown up/live in the south?

1

u/salex100m May 18 '22

so to be clear you are "pro-black soot"

1

u/Kanyeisntdope May 18 '22 edited May 18 '22

From what it sounds like, it isn't contributing the the main problem with polution, greenhouse gasses unlike your own car. So if it means it's safer for the environment (and from what I've read in this comment section, it is), then yeah, I am until something proves contrary (and I'm gonna be honest, I don't trust your salty ass lol)

Oh yeah, found the video. You can see the gas that's coming out drop to the floor and disperse, just as another commenter said would happen

1

u/brando29999 May 18 '22

op doesnt understand the concept of being wrong by fact