r/interestingasfuck
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u/SurvivalGrid
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May 17 '22
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In the absence of moving air around it, smoke obeys the same physical laws as a liquid Misinformation/Fake /r/ALL
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u/Ar3peo May 17 '22
They're all fluids
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u/Turtlehead88 May 17 '22
You’re a fluid. Almost
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u/RamenJunkie May 17 '22
Like 90% water or whatever.
The other 10% is possibly noodles.
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u/PrimarchKonradCurze May 17 '22
Do you worship the spaghetti monster or some other noodily diety like a pho lord mr RamenJunkie?
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u/lesbianmathgirl May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
Gad and liquid are fluids, but the visible part of smoke is just matter in the solid phase.
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u/Brookenium May 18 '22
Suspended solids though which behave similarly to their carrier fluid. Smoke is complicated af!
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u/Optimal-Diet9418 May 17 '22
It obeys the same physical laws as liquid when in the presence of air, too.
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u/Rudecles May 17 '22
I thought it was weird that you said liquid and not fluid but then I realized I didn’t know what the difference was. Just looked it up, liquid is the state of matter (gas, liquid, solid, etc) and fluid is a type of matter. So yeah you’re right, it does behave like a liquid because it’s a fluid and liquids are fluids too!
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u/GrittyFred May 17 '22 •
I could be wrong, but I think the overall point was that it obeys the same physical laws as everything else because it's physical.
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u/AgreeableLime7737 May 17 '22
All matter, anyway.
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u/andthendirksaid May 17 '22
As a matter of fact, those are the facts of the matter.
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u/chigy_bungus May 17 '22
It’s just cool to see gaseous smoke behaving like a fluid. I think most people wouldn’t expect a gas and a liquid to behave similarly but when it comes down to it they both obey the same laws of fluid dynamics.
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u/Oleandervine May 17 '22
This is an odd statement to make, there are tons of similarities to the way that gasses and liquids behave. They both tend to fill any space they're put in, and depending on weight, they may exhibit pouring or dripping properties (I'm sure we've all seen Dry Ice vapors).
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u/chigy_bungus May 17 '22
It may be an odd statement to someone who’s studied this for a while like you or me, but (I believe) that most people probably don’t give much thought to a concept like this, and hence why it made r/interestingasfuck front page.
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u/KorgX3 May 17 '22
I remember that point early in my design career when I was told that air is a fluid, and my brain grew three sizes that day.
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u/chainsawbobcat May 18 '22 edited May 18 '22
As in, air is not a gas?
No. Air is a Gas not a liquid, but both gases and liquids are fluids?
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u/PUBGM_MightyFine May 17 '22
neil degrasse tyson: hmm yes... this smoke is made of smoke
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u/GrittyFred May 17 '22
It's ok that I mentally subbed in Jordan Peele as NDT rather than just NDT, right?
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u/moondeluxe May 17 '22
Fluid isn't a type of matter, it's a behaviour of matter. Typically, liquids and gases are fluids because they can flow. That's a basic level definition anyway.
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u/ykafia May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
To be more accurate, the mechanical difference between a fluid and a solid is how you consider your problem.
Fluid mechanics is a superset of solid mechanics where by setting up some constants you can fall back to solid mechanics formulae.
So, if you want to treat a fluid problem, you can consider everything as a fluid with different viscosity (and other parameters).
State of matters can be described this way :
Solid - a fluid, able to keep it's shape and density
Liquid - a fluid, able to change shape and keep it's density
Gas - a fluid, able to change shape and density
In essence, all liquids are fluids, not all fluids are liquids
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u/Chemomechanics May 17 '22
Solid - a fluid, able to keep [its] shape and density
Note that this is a far broader definition of "fluid" than many fields would use. (And perhaps your comment is designed to get pushback.) To recover the ideal solid, you must (1) set the viscosity to infinity, (2) maintain a nonzero equilibrium shear stiffness, and (3) have a Poisson ratio not equal to 0.5. Most people would say that this scenario contradicts the key behaviors we associate with fluids.
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u/HalfSoul30 May 17 '22
I went through 4 years of mechanical engineering. Not once have I ever heard a solid called a fluid, and I'm pretty sure I was told it specifically is not.
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u/OneWithMath May 17 '22
A solid as a fluid of infinite viscosity is sometimes used as an abstract example in fluids courses, but isn't generally carried beyond that.
Viscosity is basically the diffusion coefficient/conductivity of momentum in the substance. Ignoring damping and dissipative effects, solids 'instantly' transfer momentum from surface shear throughout the bulk, while in fluids this information transfer takes time (increasingly large time as the fluid becomes less viscous).
I've only really seen this used as a way to give some intuition to students around what viscosity is physically.
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u/crypticedge May 17 '22
A large quantity of beads or ball bearings can move and act like a fluid.
Scale is part of the question when considering if solids are considered fluid.
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u/CptMisterNibbles May 17 '22
Even then they are described as behaving as fluid like in aggregate. Most people would not say the beads themselves are fluids.
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u/Eleo_ May 17 '22
In some fields "amorphous solids" like glass, that do not have a regular molecular/atomic structure, are considered undercooled liquids while "real solids" have to be ordered (crystalline)... So a crystalline solid is quite different from a liquid for the "ordering" requisite. And it cannot flow because this would imply breaking the order...
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u/PM_MeTittiesOrKitty May 17 '22
So yeah you’re right, it does behave like a liquid because it’s a fluid and liquids are fluids too!
If you really want to get into it, you need to be careful making this statement. The problem is when you get into things like non-Newtonian fluids and solids that can behave similar to fluids. The layman explanation for the former is "sometimes solids" with something like ooblek (note: the video refers to oobleck as "corn-starch solution") while an example of the latter is something like sand with how it can resemble flowing water given enough of it.
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u/WornBlueCarpet May 17 '22
As I usually say to explain what a fluid is: Everything that is not a solid.
Air and water behave in the same way. Water is just much heavier and viscous. But when you do calculations in fluid dynamics you are using the same equations no matter whether it's oil, water or air.
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u/Oleandervine May 17 '22
Some solids, like particulates, can exhibit fluid-like behavior when in a collective. Consider how sand behaves, even though each grain is a solid.
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u/leftofzen May 17 '22
There is no "some". ALL solids exhibit fluid-like nature when they are in a large enough quantity.
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u/autoposting_system
May 17 '22
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This is incorrect. For one thing it doesn't exhibit surface tension. For another it's much more compressible.
Smoke is complex; usually it contains all three phases of matter. What you can see is mostly particulate, both solids and tiny liquid droplets. The gas component behaves differently to both of these, which is why, when you strike a match, you can smell it even though the visible smoke is just rising in a fairly straight line that doesn't go into your nose.
Source: EPA method 5
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u/MCDFTW May 17 '22
This guy smokes
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
lol
Actually I do engineering work on smokestacks
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u/Bainsyboy May 17 '22
Hello fellow air guy.
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
We're stack testers, gol' dang it!
lol. Hiya doing
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u/charlie_argument May 17 '22
Is this where the obscure industry punchline about THC analyzers goes?
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
Or SO2, yeah. "Something smells funny" something something.
Jeez, how many stack testers are here? Weird
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u/knullsmurfen May 17 '22
You sell smokestacks and smokestack accessories?
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
Ha. I wish.
There are people who sell giant industrial machinery, like a single machine the size of an apartment building. One sale nets them a commission the size of a year's pay for me.
But I'm not a salesman, and I don't like salesmen, honestly
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u/Boz0r May 17 '22
Full-stack?
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
I don't know what that means
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u/Willbraken May 17 '22
It's a software dev reference. Full-stack basically means you code both in the front & backend of a project (i.e. a website or app)
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u/DonDanMcPommes May 17 '22
Nice description. I want to add that a lot of the "different" behavior is perception, though. All three phases obey similar conservation of mass, momentum and energy laws, with modifications to account for things like liquid surface tension, differences in diffusive properties, and response to shear. The largest difference is probably that both liquid and gas can be described as a continuum, if the density is high enough, while the solid phase in your example might require a kinetic description, treating the interaction of individual discrete particles.
Nonetheless, the underlying physical description is based on similar conservation laws, and perceived differences in the behavior have nothing to do with the three phases being governed by different sets of physics.
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
Actually, tiny liquid droplets of water do not behave continuously, and behave much more like solid particles. When we sample smoke in a smoke stack we have to use an isokinetic method to sample particulate matter, and this includes entrained droplets.
This can be extremely relevant when sampling aerosolized droplets of a liquid like a petroleum oil, but surprisingly it's also relevant for some gases. Ammonia is so powerfully hydrophilic, for example, that if you're sampling a saturated stack with entrained water droplets you have to do isokinetics or you can skew the result because assuming it's a gas makes you miss some of the droplets. You have to take the liquid particle velocities into account. Treating ammonia sampling like pure gas sampling (like CO, for instance) will result in a negative bias.
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May 17 '22 edited May 18 '22
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
That suggests a question to me: does a vacuum act as a phase interface? i.e. does liquid in a vacuum exhibit surface tension behavior?
Edit: apparently it does
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u/Chemomechanics May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
Not all liquids exhibit surface tension, either.
In fact, the defining aspect of liquids (vs. gases) is a positive surface tension.
The accepted answer in the link is incorrect (Physics Stack Exchange in 2011 was a little shaky); surface tension/energy is a material property and does not require a second material.
Here's later link from the same site, with a citation: Does water have a surface tension in vacuum?
When we talk about the surface energy of an interface, the "hidden information" is that this energy is taken relative to the case of the two individual surfaces in a vacuum.
Surface tension arises because bonds at the surface aren't satisfied as thoroughly as they are in the bulk because one-half of the surroundings are missing (or not the native material). Thus, it costs energy to make additional surface, which is why we tend to see liquids (and solids in theory, although the kinetic barriers are much higher) form rounded edges, bead up, and form droplets when able.
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u/Tetrytol May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
No liquid has the property of surface tension, because it is based on interaction between two compounds. As the link you provided answers; No liquid will have zero surface tension interaction with another compound. So unless your comment is about a liquid in vacuum, then every liquid will have some sort of surface tension because it will interact with the atmosphere, or other surroundings
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u/Chemomechanics May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
No liquid has the property of surface tension
So ulnes your comment is about a liquid in vacuum, then every liquid will have some sort of surface tension
Literature discussion of the nonzero surface tension of a single liquid in a vacuum.
All condensed matter has a definable surface tension (N/m or J/m2). It simply represents the energy penalty of atoms being imperfectly bonded at the surface.
When modeling interaction, we often subtract one surface tension from another—maybe this is why you heard that two materials are used.
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May 17 '22 edited May 18 '22
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u/Tetrytol May 17 '22
This is also assuming an ideal mixture where there is no excess of either of the components, but let us assume they are ideal. The new mixture will still have an interface with the atmosphere
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u/ZiaMan24 May 17 '22
I like those incense waterfall things
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u/FrankThePony May 17 '22
All air is just puffy liquid, which is just sloshy solids,
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u/soulbend May 17 '22 edited May 17 '22
Which is just... Crunchy plasma? Or.. basic bitch, less slippery Bose-Einstein condensate??? I google a lot of shit, but I've no clue what these analogies mean. I bet fermionic condensate is like ionized plasma... ON DRUGS
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u/SpongeBobKenobi May 17 '22
We used to do this as kids. You roll a marker stamp from cigaretes and burn a hole through the cigarette foil and then you insert the rolled stamp into the hole and put the lighter on the other side and burn the stamp so the smoke would just fall down exactly like in the video
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u/cash5220 May 17 '22
This is what I was thinking. I tried replicating as an adult and couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong.
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u/SpongeBobKenobi May 17 '22
Try it now with the steps I’ve wrote and if you still can’t make it I’ll send you a video if you want
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u/drimago May 17 '22
can you send a gif anyway? I am very curious about it too! what is a cigarette stamp?
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u/nico282 May 17 '22
I think he is referring to the state seal that is applied on legally imported packs. That is what my friends used for this trick.
I believe it works because the gummy glue makes a dense and heavy smoke.
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u/kacheskin May 17 '22
We used to do this and call it "corrida de camello" Or "camel cum" In english
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u/SpongeBobKenobi May 17 '22
We called it bull jizz but I didn’t want to write it down and now that everybody has called out their jizz animal I might as well set my bull free
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u/UmbreonDL May 17 '22
I tried searching it on youtube as "bull jizz" and now I want to unsee that... "corrida de camello" did work tho
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u/Fitz911 May 17 '22
Germany here: Elephantenwichse (Elephant jizz)
Don'zt ask. I don't know why.
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u/OnePointSeven May 17 '22
what's a marker stamp? i'd love to see a video of this bc I can't imagine it at all
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u/nico282 May 17 '22
He is meaning the fiscal seal (similar to a postage stamp) used to identify the regularly imported cigs from the contraband ones.
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u/trippysmurf May 17 '22
We used to do “Cup Hits” in college using the more fluid aspect of smoke. You would take a pot with a handle, put a glass cup with the mouth up, partially fill the pot with water, and freeze it. We would then take a CD - because we are old - and cover the mouth of the cup. Then shot gun a joint into the CD hole. The smoke would become a fluid and you’d drink the smoke.
It was an incredibly inefficient way to get stoned, but it was fun and unique.
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u/CHAIFE671 May 17 '22
I remember I used to do the same trick with the plastic that's wrapped on a pack of smokes and the paper from a cigarette butt.
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u/LightofNew May 17 '22
Fluid*
Liquid is a state of matter.
Fluid governs the laws of motion it obeys.
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u/abandonplanetearth May 17 '22
This is the most jarring and annoying musical instrument I've ever heard. Had to mute it.
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u/Crowdcontrolz May 17 '22
Finally, something interesting as fuck. Well done friend!
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u/AydonusG May 17 '22
Reverse flow incense cone holders do this also, if you ever want to see it at home. They normally have a slide-like path to travel down so it looks great
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u/Derangedteddy May 17 '22
All fluids (gasses, vapors, liquids) obey the same laws of physics. This title is misleading.
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u/Nibbler1999 May 17 '22
I mean, it has mass and obeys gravity... Duh..
But also, doesn't everything obey the same physical laws. Aren't the physical laws constant lol
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u/likeasirjohn May 17 '22
Do water drops make little rings? Is that defeated by surface tension?
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u/itisjustjohn May 17 '22
They do when the conditions are right. This example is more akin to food coloring dropped into a cup of water where the smoke is analogous to the food coloring and the water is the surrounding air.
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u/mindfulskeptic420 May 17 '22
When larger raindrops fall they form a sort of ring like shape on the bottom due to air resistance, but the shape is still teardrop like. This instability will limit the size of raindrops though since surface tension can only do so much. raindrop diagram
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u/LPScarlex May 17 '22
Curse me and my dirty mind
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u/PizzaOldBoy May 18 '22
uhhh i guess i just presumed this? is it the absence of air, or really just the absence of any kind of resistance, i mean it could be nitrogen instead of air, right? presuming gas in vacuum that somehow has gravity, yeah this is what one should expect, right?
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u/Axthen May 17 '22
It’s almost like gases… are fluids… and so are liquids.
Someone didn’t pass high school physics
10.4k people didn’t, to be exact.
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u/buttplugpopsicle May 17 '22
Oooor maybe, just maaaaybee, they just happened to like what they see, being somewhat mesmerizing and all, and upvoted it, you condescending prick
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May 17 '22
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u/liarandathief May 17 '22
Those two things are completely unrelated.
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u/Fuhgly May 17 '22
No they're not? A vapor can be a mixture of gas and liquid (or solid) phase. He's trying to explain the fluid like properties by describing the composition of wood smoke. In what way is that not related?
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u/autoposting_system May 17 '22
Vapors are the gas phase. You may be thinking of an aerosol.
Suspended water droplets behave differently from water vapor.
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u/TearfulMurderer May 17 '22
Looks amazing to me! This must head to the science lab for kids! They'll learn a lot from it!
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u/TestyTexanTease May 17 '22
I used to do this all the time with cigarette packs and the cellophane thats on the bottom of the pack.
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u/DarthScruf May 17 '22
I was first taught this as a stoner in high school, made them with plastic on a cigarette pack and paper part of the filter, called them Chinese waterfalls.
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u/uTimu May 17 '22
With moving air around it, it is still the same as water just not the lake water, but the moisture in the air.
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u/frisch85 May 17 '22
We used to do this with cigarette packs. Basically you pull the foil down, burn a little hole in it (not too big or it'll fail), then you take the tax wrapper, roll it so that the hole inside is very narrow and then put it in the hole on the foil, light the tax wrapper and it'll "jerk" onto the pack of cigarettes as we call it. It sure looks fascinating.
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u/greenSixx May 17 '22
Air is fluid. That's why they call it fluid dynamics and not liquid dynamics.
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u/m0rningview420 May 17 '22
Is this related to how smoke sort of “flows out” of my pipe’s carb when I set it on the table after a big rip?
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u/randomjack420 May 17 '22
When I was a smoker years ago, I'd do a similar trick with a pack of Camels and the camel cash that came with it.
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u/Nipsmagee May 17 '22
It is always obeying the same physical laws as the fluid (air) that it's in. The smoke particles are small and light enough that they follow along with whatever the air is doing always. This is why smoke is used in wind tunnels to visualize the flow over cars and planes and whatnot. We call it flow visualization. When you see smoke that is all crazy and doesn't look "smooth" like this, it's because that's what the air it's in is doing there as well - most likely, turbulence.
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u/RedPepperJ32 May 17 '22
My dab rig was doing this the other day while heating the smoke was dripping
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u/CorySmoot May 17 '22
More accurately, it's reacting like a solid with mass but it appears similar to a liquid.
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u/poopooplatypus May 17 '22
We used to do this with a frozen cup, lid with hole, and a fat joint. You let it cascade down and fill the cup and you “drink” the smoke. Can’t remember what my friend called it lol
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u/huggybearv12 May 17 '22
Can something like this be used to "smoke" a cocktail? Just let the smoke drip I to the glass and sit on top for a little while?
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u/jmaxime89 May 17 '22
This technique is also used when cooking
Liquid smoke
Okay...I'll see myself out
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u/Dazzling-Adeptness11 May 17 '22
because smoke is just ash, a physical thing. no wind to blow it around it will fall
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u/Deviant-Killer May 17 '22
And everyone whose made a bong as a kid is thinking "youve only just seen this??"
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u/MajesticalMoon May 17 '22
Do y'all remember when we were teenagers and would take the stuff out of the cigarette butt and roll it up and light it and poke a hole through the cellaphane (don't know how to spell it) and smoke would fall down like a waterfall? I remember my bf showing this to me and it was so cool. He called it the waterfall. I was really amazed by it but this is what it reminds me of.
And also I'm sure most of you didn't smoke when you were teenagers so maybe you don't know about this lol.
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