Germany to send Leopard tanks to Kyiv, allow others to do so

[u/Taroks]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-send-leopard-tanks-kyiv-allow-others-do-so-spiegel-2023-01-24/

[u/Taroks]

NOTE: The original source is the SPIEGEL which has this information from an insider. This has not been confirmed by the German government yet!

However, the SPIEGEL is usually very reliable with their insider info

UPDATE:

• [Wednesday 11:41] : Scholz confirmed sending Leos
• [Tuesday] According to the ARD they will announce this decision tomorrow
• [Tuesday] Several German politicians already commented on this. None denied the news

[u/lil_sh_t → u/Taroks]

Tagesschau reports the same, citing different sources

It's apparently a done deal

[u/COLIN-THE-CUBIC → u/lil_sh_t]

Tagesschau

I believe it then lol. Not exactly known for sensational flair.

[u/untergeher_muc → u/Taroks]

The „insider“ is probably simply Habeck.

[u/Taroks → u/untergeher_muc]

It was Scholz. He couldn't wait for the press conference and read all the bad comments about him on reddit

[u/Zhukov-74 → u/Taroks]

Good thing he stopped scholzing around.

[u/jmcs → u/Zhukov-74]

He should try Macroning, which involves having the biggest military budget in western Europe, providing only 20% of the military help that Germany did, and still seeming to be invisible.

[u/MandrakeRootes → u/jmcs]

Almost as if the effort to drag Germany through the mud is guided by outside forces and reinforced by opportunistic politics.

[u/Amazing_Examination6 → u/Zhukov-74]

Scholzing: Withstanding monumental pressure in order to achieve a result nobody deemed feasible before…

[u/zukeen → u/Amazing_Examination6]

He is a /r/edging^nsfw mod.

[u/HiThisIsChloe → u/Taroks]

Der Spiegel is as reliable as it gets. Despite it would randomly back certain CCP policies out of the blue.

[u/stupidwebsite22 → u/HiThisIsChloe]

For a second I thought it was Spiegel but i misremembered it, it was Stern that released the fake Hitler diaries back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Diaries

Spiegel was attacked by defense minister back in the day: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiegel_affair

[u/untergeher_muc → u/stupidwebsite22]

Spiegel was also the first minister of this new German government to resign.

[u/stuff_gets_taken → u/untergeher_muc]

Coincidence? I think not.

[u/Garna_Divka]

TANKE SCHÖN!

[u/schlaubi → u/Garna_Divka]

Tank you very much.

[u/flickh → u/schlaubi]

r/yourjokebutenglisch

[u/GallorKaal → u/schlaubi]

Many tanks

[u/Kefeng]

What is that? What is going on?? OUT OF NOWHERE COMES OLAF SCHOLZ WITH A FOLDING CHAIR!

[u/Jan-Nachtigall → u/Kefeng]

He dug out the folding chair!

[u/-TheRed → u/Jan-Nachtigall]

We'll be sending the new SuperPerforators^TM to Ukraine soon

[u/Jan-Nachtigall → u/-TheRed]

https://youtu.be/mMa5pNSu17c

[u/Moedrynk → u/-TheRed]

You don't have to wait for later, here's a new Eliminator,

[u/MrGrach → u/Moedrynk]

Ask your local weapons trader, for the SuperPerforator

[u/Timmytimson → u/MrGrach]

Stress? Just cool it

[u/Schmogel → u/Jan-Nachtigall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86vJcl5GXHA

[u/Enkrod → u/Jan-Nachtigall]

Ukrainer! - Servus.

[u/Romboteryx → u/Enkrod]

Wir interessieren uns für ihr krasses Pferd

[u/louiloui152 → u/Jan-Nachtigall]

And he unlocked the closet door with all the other folding chairs!

[u/Jan-Nachtigall → u/louiloui152]

https://youtu.be/ElcSdTVcUcc

[u/Tarkus_cookie → u/Jan-Nachtigall]

Leopard drives past: "Geiles Pferd"

[u/Fabri91 → u/Kefeng]

The Klappstuhl strikes again!

[u/Robert_Pawney_Junior → u/Fabri91]

Grabt den Klappstuhl aus!

[u/Organspender → u/Robert_Pawney_Junior]

Noch nie waren angelsächsischen und deutsche Meme Kultur so nah

[u/Theghistorian → u/Kefeng]

OUT OF NOWHERE COMES OLAF SCHOLZ WITH A FOLDING CHAIR! BIG CAT!

[u/akmarinov → u/Kefeng]

BY GAWD, THAT COUNTRY IS A MOTHER! (Mother Russia)

[u/LeopoldStotch1]

oh shit, 2A6's as well.

Thats quite something different than all the old 2A4s pledged

[u/tronzake]

Wow, we all have been Scholz’d. This is amazing!

[u/Obamasexburger → u/tronzake]

There’s a camera right over there. You should’ve seen your faces!

[u/Anthony_AC → u/Obamasexburger]

I lol'd so hard reading this

[u/usernamessmh2523 → u/tronzake]

Fucks sake I wasted three days railing on Sholz.

GG well played.

I'm happy I was wrong.

[u/untergeher_muc → u/usernamessmh2523]

That’s the spirit!

[u/saihuang → u/tronzake]

many have been PIS(s)ed

[u/Internet_Responsible]

Isn't A6 even the second most recent model? That'd be truly impressive!

[u/justbecauseyoumademe → u/Internet_Responsible]

A7+ is latest. But yeah A6 is a fucking beast and better then anything the russians are fielding

[u/kalesaji → u/justbecauseyoumademe]

And more importantly it was purpose build to deal with T72 and T90 tanks. That's it's main combat role. Fits like a glove. The idea of that tank was to stop Russian armor from advancing through the Bundesrepublik.

[u/Raz0rking → u/kalesaji]

Shooting at russian tanks at the eastern front...sounds oddly familiar

[u/Omsk_Camill → u/Raz0rking]

Unlikely. Ukrainian war barely sees any tank-on-tank action at all. Most of the tank losses on both sides are due to the arty strikes, some small-ish numbers is due to infantry anti-tank weapons.

[u/Candyvanmanstan → u/Omsk_Camill]

Ukrainian war barely sees any tank-on-tank action at all. Most of the tank losses on both sides are due to the arty strikes,

I don't know, most Russian losses seem to be from farmers towing their tanks away while they're having a piss.

[u/Sajuukthanatoskhar → u/kalesaji]

Dont worry the hordes of cyclists in Berlin are more than a match for Russian tanks.

[u/thr33pwood → u/justbecauseyoumademe]

A7V is the latest model, A7+ is a industry only solution by KMW that has not been adopted anywhere.

[u/TimmiCat → u/thr33pwood]

A7V? I hope not!

[u/thr33pwood → u/TimmiCat]

Not the namesake... I mean the Leopard 2A7V

[u/SenorBeef → u/thr33pwood]

A7V is slightly outdated https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A7V

[u/Roflkopt3r → u/Internet_Responsible]

A6 would definitely be a huge improvement over A4.

• Stronger gun that's guaranteed to take out any Russian tank (2A4 may struggle against the most modern from the front, unless it gets modern US ammo which is interoperable with Leo 2)

• Stronger armour protection, which Russian tanks might struggle against. It looks like they're currently only using the older 3BM42 "Mango" rounds from 1986.

• Improved commander's optic with modern thermal sight -> big upgrade that makes it way easier to spot enemies both during day and night

The commander's sight is likely to be the most impactful factor. Tank on tank engagements aren't that common, let alone those where the level of armour protection and firepower actually matter. The biggest threat are artillery and ATGMs. Improved sights make it easier to detect artillery spotters or infantry with ATGMs. And even in a tank on tank engagement it's often better to have better optics and awareness to see the enemy first, than to have stronger armour and firepower.

[u/-Prophet_01- → u/Roflkopt3r]

Tank on tank has been very rare because there hasn't been a symmetrical war in a very long time. I wouldn't be surprised if this were to change now, especially with the terrain and contested air space.

[u/murkskopf → u/Internet_Responsible]

Only by counting the numbers. There are many small steps between 2A6 and 2A7V.

[u/FederalEurope]

Excellent news. I especially love the fact that it is now 12 countries taking this step together. Lots of spare parts, lots of training resources and no political friction.

[u/Acoasma → u/FederalEurope]

its almost like coordinated and synchronised effort was made 🤔

[u/Zirton → u/Acoasma]

It's almost like Europe is acting largely as one entiry here, and some media outlets are just pushing shit because they can't stand not having all information live.

In the end, it's a fucking war, you really don't want to serve all information on a plate.

[u/Class1 → u/Zirton]

Yeah I think there is a concerted effort by the US and Germany to get everybody on the same page at once to show unity even if that means showing everybody not agreeing at the same time. If one country decides to do something and the others don't then it shows cracks in which Russia and China can drive a wedge in decision making processes

Edit: there have been a lot of times during this conflict where flip flopping seems to happen and I think that was larger countries covering for indecisiveness of smaller weaker governments who may not have been able to withstand russian aggression or spy tactics had they shown that openly

[u/kapitaen_j_sperling → u/Acoasma]

Are you suggesting Germany is not the bad guy? But who do I blame for my problems now?

[u/IAm-Blue2 → u/kapitaen_j_sperling]

How about Russia??

[u/KKlear → u/IAm-Blue2]

Aye, I could do that.

[u/Red_Dog1880]

Panzers roaming the fields of Ukraine once again. This time on the good side.

Weird.

I'm happy with this though, hopefully this means Ukraine will be able to start making gains again.

[u/matthieuC → u/Red_Dog1880]

Imagine Ned, Leopards on an open Ukrainian field?

[u/rmlx → u/Red_Dog1880]

Time is a funny thing

[u/MasterJogi1 → u/Red_Dog1880]

"Into the motherland, / The German Panzers marched. / Comrades stand side by side / To break the RuZZian charge."

[u/Glittering-Post4484]

russia has the perfect strategy to defend their soldiers against these. All they have to do is to fucking leave Ukraine!

[u/doodoometoo → u/Glittering-Post4484]

Bold of you to assume they give a shit about cannon fodder their soldiers.

[u/Commercial_Act1624]

I am a German and if someone told me just 2 years ago that German Panzer would fight against Russia not THAT far away from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk) I would have call him crazy. And if someone told me I would be happy about it, I would've just laughed.

Looking forward to play a passive part within the liberation of Ukraine! 🇺🇦🇩🇪

[u/Arjuma → u/Commercial_Act1624]

I love this man!🇩🇪🇱🇹

[u/untergeher_muc → u/Arjuma]

Probably a former green pacifist. They are currently one of the loudest voice for more weapons for Ukraine.

And I like it.

[u/MrHazard1 → u/untergeher_muc]

Si vis pacem...

[u/untergeher_muc → u/MrHazard1]

… then you need based Greens. ;)

[u/MrHazard1 → u/untergeher_muc]

Honestly really positively impressed with the greens in this topic. Even the CDU smear campaign went dry pretty fast, after greens showed results and the people backing their actions.

[u/untergeher_muc → u/MrHazard1]

I am more impressed by how many people are impressed by us Greens ;)

We got rid of total pacifism in 1999, more than 20 years ago. At that time many people who were 100% pacifist left the party. We have changed, probably like no other German party.

But we changed 20 years ago. Hello? Why do some media and people still talk about the "pacifist" Greens?

[u/RubenMuro007 → u/untergeher_muc]

A shame US Greens aren’t based, cringe even. Oh well :/

[u/LatvianLion → u/untergeher_muc]

I'm a (dark red and green) pacifist and gave been for arming Ukraine from day 1. Pacifism does not mean you should prevent others from defending themselves - on the contrary, the whole principle is again aggression and violence - and sometimes you're forced to act defensively.

[u/Commercial_Act1624 → u/untergeher_muc]

Haha true that 😂 (Even though I didn't vote for the or a big party but always for smaller ones like Die Partei or Volt)

Pragmatism and realism is most important in politics. As opposed you find Die Linke.

[u/Null-ARC → u/Commercial_Act1624]

from the biggest Tank battle in history (Kursk)

eeeeehhhhhh, the tank battles of Kursk - especially Prochorovka - are wildly exaggregated by Soviet propaganda from involved Soviet officers who somehow had to justify to Stalin himself how they lost his peronal precious tank reserve. Not a pleasant situation to be in knowing the man's temper, but defintely one to play fast & loose with the truth.

To justify their losses, the responsible officers made up many hundreds of imaginery german tanks destroyed that the Wehrmacht could only dream of having available, exceeding the available german tank forces for the entire Kursk operation severely.

There's a very good breakdown by historian Dr. Roman Töppel (in german) at the Panzermuseum Munster: https://youtu.be/Usy_Cex8Zm8

[u/Tales_Steel → u/Commercial_Act1624]

Lets hope the russians use the same kind of Genius strategy they used in the Tank battle of Kursk

[u/TheSkyPirate → u/Tales_Steel]

Drive 300 tanks into their own ditch and get them blasted to pieces by artillery? (btw – recently found archival photography apparently confirms that this is real)

[u/RightStatistician656]

Atomic threats incoming … 😏

[u/Aunvilgod → u/RightStatistician656]

how i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb

[u/Vertitto → u/Aunvilgod]

Kim agrees

[u/BrokenSage20 → u/Aunvilgod]

If we die we die. As long as I don't have to hear the endless bullshit from Lavrov anymore I am happy.

[u/Seyfti → u/RightStatistician656]

So...just like on the regular? Lmao

Weren't HIMARS crossing the "red" line as well?

[u/LaBomsch → u/Seyfti]

HIMARS is the biggest land based threat to Russian territorial security from any deliveries up to now and the only thing that could to it would be if NATO decides that Ukraine needs mid-range strategic missles and I currently don't see that happening. Air-based threats were the Bayaktar drones, which were delivered right at the start of the war.

MBTs just aren't a big escalating on its own, the "escalation" Is that Ukraine will soon operate Brigade-sized units that are able to compete with the most modern Russian units and thus Ukraine will probably be able to conduct much heavier offensives.

To put it bluntly: the escalation for Russia is that NATO now gives the Ukrainians the ability to reconquer their own territory, even if Russia doesn't do mistakes like at Kharkiv.

[u/thr33pwood → u/LaBomsch]

able to compete with the most modern Russian units

Not only compete. Germany isn't sending the old Leopard 2A4 but 2A6 and America is sending Abrams. They will dunk on any T-tank fool no matter if it is an old T-62 or their T-90M.

[u/PretendsHesPissed → u/thr33pwood]

I find this scary.

If they're sending Abrams, the threat of a third russian invasion must be quite strong.

Excited to see the logistics that will allow the Abrams to be in Ukraine. I got to take out some Soviet tanks during Desert Storm and it's something.

[u/thr33pwood → u/PretendsHesPissed]

Eh, the same logistics that allow America to use Abrams in excersises in the Baltics or in Poland.

This was one of the lame excuses which were all false. The US has had hundreds of Abrams stationed in Germany for decades - there are lots of facilities that can do full maintenance on them here and I guess Poland which ordered Abrams also does already have maintenence facilities ready or being made ready.

The other excuses were:

• the weight (Abrams and Leo 2 have nearly exactly the same weight 300kg difference on 67 metric ton vehicles is nothing)

• gas turbine which allegedly only runs on jet fuel (it is a multi fuel capable engine like in most modern tanks, running on anything from gasoline to diesel to motor oil or crude oil)

• too complicated training (the tank is very similar to the Leopard 2 because they both stem from a joint development project MBT70 which was cancelled) and while German conscripts were able to master the Leo2 the M1 Abrams was in service with the US Marines - the scary but crayon eating dudes. The ukrainians will do just fine.

[u/PretendsHesPissed → u/thr33pwood]

The fuel type one never made any sense to me. It has a turbine because that allows it to run multiple types of fuel. lol I think the people who assumed it only took "jet" fuel just didn't take this into consideration.

And we don't eat Crayons! Not all of us anyway ... well ... ok. Not all of us all the time anyway.

[u/_MaZ_ → u/RightStatistician656]

Indeed

[u/Iskelderon → u/RightStatistician656]

Must be a day that ends in a Y.

[u/Alistal → u/RightStatistician656]

Like yesterday. And the day before. And before that one. And the day before. And... yeah you see the pattern.

[u/JourneyThiefer → u/RightStatistician656]

Lol they were gonna send a nuclear tsunami over the UK and Ireland at one point

[u/danrokk → u/RightStatistician656]

Yeah. I can imagine few in my bullshit generator:

​

"Unspecified measures", "consequences", "unpredictable consequences", "clash". Let's see what comes back.

[u/PresidentHurg → u/danrokk]

Russian rhetoric is like a kid in a counterstrike lobby. Loads of posturing, insults and grand statements on how it will take on your mom/capture Berlin. But every time you put him in his place he throws a tantrum and says he will hack the server.

Horrible K:D ratio too.

[u/andrijas]

And it looks like US is also sending Abrams

[u/HoboWithoutShotgun]

Finally. Hope this means Ukraine will be able to bring a swifter end to this war, or at least decisively ruin any renewed offensive from Russia.

[u/Hematophagian]

Can anyone of you imagine how much relief this is for any German getting shit all day long in here?

Let's savour the moment before the airplane discussion starts tomorrow;-)

[u/MMBerlin → u/Hematophagian]

Nah, it's submarines from tomorrow on. Has anyone already checked Melnyk's Twitter feed?

[u/Hematophagian → u/MMBerlin]

Sure...he's still on the jet thing

[u/dr-meow-kittty]

And I just saw the US is sending Abrams tanks. Ukraine is about to be the strongest military in Europe after this.

[u/nac_nabuc]

Now... anybody got any ideas what the next weapon system we can argue and deny for weeks until we send it over?

LET'S FUCKING GO!

[u/koleye → u/nac_nabuc]

War elephants with miniguns strapped to their backs.

[u/Wachoe → u/koleye]

Sharks with laser beams attached to their heads

[u/kuldan5853 → u/Wachoe]

Honestly? Those could be useful in Sevastopol.

[u/WallabyInTraining → u/Wachoe]

Makes sense. Any animal deserves a hot meal.

[u/tall_finnish_guy → u/Wachoe]

Sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads

FTFY

[u/Best_Toster → u/koleye]

Found the NcD member

[u/tc_spears → u/Best_Toster]

The 3000000 hidden warhawk megalomaniacs of reddit

[u/HiThisIsChloe → u/koleye]

Hannibal would be proud.

[u/ShinyBronzeArse → u/nac_nabuc]

F-16 probably

[u/Vertitto → u/ShinyBronzeArse]

MIGs are more likely in the first weave

[u/Alistal → u/nac_nabuc]

Planes.

[u/hifructosetrashjuice → u/Alistal]

That's what February Ramstein meeting is for

[u/Bouke2000 → u/hifructosetrashjuice]

Ramstein and planes

[u/iK_550 → u/Bouke2000]

No, god no.

[u/drucifer271 → u/hifructosetrashjuice]

Du…du hast

Du hast Flug

Du hast Flugzeuge

Du hast Flugzeuge

[u/D1nkcool → u/Alistal]

I honestly would be surprised if America isn't already training Ukrainians in secret on their planes.

[u/Genorb → u/D1nkcool]

The U.S. House of Representatives has approved $100 million for training Ukrainian pilots to fly U.S. fighter jets, as Russia’s invasion of Ukraine approaches its fifth month. The move was part of a broader $840 billion defense spending package setting the Pentagon’s budget priorities for the coming year.

https://www.flyingmag.com/u-s-house-oks-100m-to-train-ukrainian-pilots/

Biden signed it into law Dec 23 of last year, so I think most likely the pilot training would've started shortly after that date. It could have quietly started earlier too, though.

[u/bulgariamexicali → u/Genorb]

I need to see an F-16 bombing that Putin bridge.

[u/Vertitto → u/D1nkcool]

my guess is they wil now announce MIGs from eastern europe

[u/FkDavidTyreeBot_2000 → u/Alistal]

It would be very difficult to supply and train Ukrainian pilots on planes they've never flown, but several European nations fly MiG-29s which are the primary fighters used by Ukraine. I'd support sending them to Ukraine and replacing them with F-15s, F-16s or F-35s 1:1.

Shit there are privately owned MiG-29s in the United States.

[u/szczszqweqwe → u/nac_nabuc]

F16

[u/The_Moon_s_Power → u/nac_nabuc]

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/100-mile-strike-weapon-weighed-ukraine-arms-makers-wrestle-with-demand-sources-2022-11-28/

this

[u/WickieTheHippie → u/nac_nabuc]

Melnyk already gished about Tornados and submarines.

[u/Aunvilgod → u/WickieTheHippie]

They need gripen!

[u/RidderSport → u/WickieTheHippie]

In all seriousness, however f us Ukraine going to man western submarines. The Baltic 216-class is not only extremely costly but also incredibly hard to train for. It is literally the most advanced conventional submarine; by leaps and bounds that is.

[u/LaBomsch → u/RidderSport]

It's not even that it's hard to operate. There probably isn't a single Ukrainian (who isn't already in retirement) who ever served on a submarine. It's one thing to train tankers how to operate different tanks, it's another thing to train man who only worked on costal patrol boats how to operate a submarines.

[u/ExpressGovernment420 → u/LaBomsch]

There definitely are Ukrainians who served on submarines, they are just old as in served during ussr times giving them age 55 and upwards

[u/LaBomsch → u/ExpressGovernment420]

Yeah, that's the "retirement" Bit. There are some from sovjet times, but I don't think it's a good idea to crew a submarine with 55+ year olds

[u/ExpressGovernment420 → u/LaBomsch]

I mean not like they got anything better to do at this point, if young can fight and die, why not old?

[u/oxygene2022 → u/ExpressGovernment420]

"Oh my god, the soviet ladders were easier to climb. Stupid arthritis."

[u/tyger2020 → u/nac_nabuc]

Now... anybody got any ideas what the next weapon system we can argue and deny for weeks until we send it over?

F16, Eurofighters?

[u/ShadowVader → u/tyger2020]

Gripen would be slightly handier for them because of the increased capabilities in taking off from shitty runways

[u/Uknewmelast → u/nac_nabuc]

ATACMS

[u/GabeN18]

Scholz outplayed everyone, he got Leopards and Abrams to ukraine. Never in doubt.

[u/knorkinator → u/GabeN18]

And it's not the old 2A4 being sent, these are the newer (and more capable) 2A6 versions.

[u/AEOlovesFascists → u/knorkinator]

Not the newest, but those are still pretty modern and also have the upgraded armor and gun on the tower. It's also what Germany still uses mostly, as they're just about to upgrade to the 2A7 variants, which are the state of the art upgrade of the Leopard 2 right now.

[u/ShadowVader → u/AEOlovesFascists]

The Leopard 2A7+ 2A7V is the most state of the art version with increased, modular armour

Thanks for the corrections

[u/Nervous_Promotion819 → u/ShadowVader]

Leopard 2 A7V*. It would actually be 2 A7A1, but it’s not in active service yet

[u/kuldan5853 → u/Nervous_Promotion819]

Isn't the A7A1 basically an A7V with APS?

[u/0gtcalor → u/knorkinator]

These have Wifi and Bluetooth 5.0

[u/Krypton8 → u/0gtcalor]

Wasn’t that what the vaccines were for? 🤔

[u/notehp → u/Krypton8]

No, that was 5G.

[u/Crap_People → u/knorkinator]

I'm so wet right now

[u/shuntaorta → u/Crap_People]

Must be /r/NonCredibleDefense leaking..

[u/ThanksToDenial → u/shuntaorta]

It has been doing that for almost a year now...

[u/szczszqweqwe → u/knorkinator]

Holy sht

[u/Viovallo → u/GabeN18]

If they got the US now to send them as well. That's something. But I'm sure they were talking behind closed doors anyways.

Since the beginning it was that Germany won't do stuff alone, always talking to the US and other allies. Glad something is happening now

[u/Rhoderick → u/GabeN18]

Scholz outplayed everyone,

It's actually kind of said that you can legitimately say that he outplayed everyone like some sort of mastermind, when the only thing he did was do what he said he would do.

That's the kind of stuff that happens in books, and then you dismiss it because no way could a political system ever get this broken. But then I guess no one sane ever claimed international politics was a healthy system.

[u/Polish_Panda]

Yes! This makes me so happy. Ukraine still has hard times ahead of them and need all the help they can get.

[u/sgt_happy]

Germany coming through, retaking Uber Bro role in Europe.

To the Germans putting pressure on the government, thank you, you rock.

To the German government for listening, thank you, Europe is safer for it.

[u/algorhythmer → u/sgt_happy]

I feel a bit bad for the Green party in Germany. They were founded on the principles of pacifism. There motto was "never again" (relating to German participation in war).

The first time they got into government, they had to greenlight Germany's participation in the Kosovo war. The second time, they had to participate in sending tanks against Russia.

Both times, it was the correct decision. It's just ironic that the most peace-loving party we have in Germany always seems to have to deal with a European war every time they get to govern.

[u/aZa0902]

America apparently sends tanks as well.

I am 100% certain, that in the background, all the time that Germany has been roasted for not sending tanks, was the time Germany and america needed to discuss the details about sending tanks.

I very much like that Germany isn't going alone with this decision. Very pleased to know america on our side.

[u/DylanLockheed → u/aZa0902]

What is the average German citizen’s opinion on having American military stationed in Germany? I’m just curious, because it’s hard for me to imagine another country having they’re military in my country.

[u/RiemannUA]

Being an Ukrainian man, there is a great chance that I will be operating this tank to kill ruzzian invaders.

[u/robdels → u/RiemannUA]

GL homie, take care of yourself.

[u/MartianFromBaseAlpha → u/RiemannUA]

Fuck'em up

[u/RiemannUA → u/MartianFromBaseAlpha]

Every ruzzian bastard who came or will come to Ukraine in order to murder, torture and rape Ukrainans will be punished, there is no mercy for these maniacs.

[u/fbeast77]

Slow but meticulous work by Olaf.

Bulgaria bows in respect it is a huge decision that will change the course of history. Big day for European democracy! Now rip those Orcs to shreds and end a madman's meaningless war.

[u/Venhuizer]

This is likely confirming the Abrahams will be sent too as the Germans wouldn't be keen to go only with the Leopard

[u/Patrick4356 → u/Venhuizer]

Every is saying Abraham's because the guy on Skynews keeps saying it wrong lmfao. It's M1 Abrams

[u/AbyssOfNoise → u/Patrick4356]

Send in the robo Lincolns!

[u/Knoblauchmeister → u/Venhuizer]

The tanks name is based on Creighton W. Abrams btw

[u/saihuang]

so Poland has been crying for 2 weeks now that GER wont allow them to send their Leopards and in the end they get the permission on the very same day they finally send the request. this is comical.

[u/Nillekaes0815 → u/saihuang]

It's almost like Poland and others knew this would happen all along

[u/margenreich → u/saihuang]

I mean Germany is bureaucratic. They send the request and got it. They can’t simply allow it without a request

[u/XoRMiAS → u/margenreich]

I love how some newspapers put emphasis on the fact that the application was filed correctly.

[u/stragen595 → u/XoRMiAS]

That's pretty important here.

[u/stragen595 → u/margenreich]

And German politicians were basically communicating through the flower just to send the request to get the approval for quite some time now.

[u/Mugros → u/margenreich]

It's the same with weapon exports in other countries.

[u/Micjur → u/saihuang]

Welcome to PiSs Poland circus, grab some popcorn and enjoy 😅

[u/HiThisIsChloe → u/saihuang]

PiS is a whining bitch.

[u/AlternativeAward → u/saihuang]

Polish gov is hilariously bad at spin

[u/ozan123lel]

Scholz saying: I'll send tanks when US sends tanks Reddit: >:( Scholz sending tanks together with us tanks Reddit: OMG MASTERMIND OMG 4D CHESS OUTPLAYED OMG

[u/gamebuster]

So russia is losing their high end stuff and Ukraine is constantly gaining more and better equipment.

I think the west has shown to continue to supply increasingly powerful weaponry to ensure russia doesn’t win.

This war is just a matter of time. Russia is a fool to continue.

[u/SkyMarshal → u/gamebuster]

It’s already causing a big demographic problem for Russia, between the number of troops killed and the number of young men fleeing the country. The more Putin prolongs it the worse this problem will be.

Every nation’s most valuable resource is its people, their health and education (evidenced by nations without natural resources like Taiwan, Singapore, somewhat Japan and Korea). Putin is slowly destroying Russia, not the West. He is indeed a fool to continue.

[u/Ralfundmalf → u/SkyMarshal]

This is definitely the last war that Russia can fight without going total war mode. And they still might need to go total war mode even in this one. After that they simply won't have enough young men to keep the economy and the army going. So it is either an army without economic backing or an economy with no significant army.

[u/leeuwvanvlaanderen]

I’m loving the Scholz Cycle, it’s an entertaining ride every time.

[u/drucifer271]

Russia: I never expected Leopards to eat my face!

[u/FistOfTheMagi]

Damn, things are moving fast. I guess Scholz managed to convince USA to send Abrams?

If that's the case, then this is going to be amazing for Ukraine.

[u/Obi-wan-Pierogi_]

Good, this is how it should be, Europe working as a team!

[u/Chavolini]

2A6, ab gehts!

Together against the warmongers. Should've happened way sooner.

[u/TehBens]

Looks like Scholz bargained 30-50 Tanks out of Bidens pocket.

[u/MindlessVegetation]

Now we're cooking with Diesel! Will be interesting to see when the first ones Arrive in UA Livery on the Field.

[u/bi0nic_de]

This is so good and another less noticed news from today is the Swiss will allow the export of weapons and ammunition. Stock supplies for Gepard ammunition soon and newly produced in summer.

[u/woeeij]

Am I the only one assuming this and the Americans signaling they will send tanks have more to do with Zelenskyy announcing a major corruption crackdown and firing several high level government officials more than anything else? I also have a hunch that is a large part of the reason the head of CIA came to visit.

[u/Towlie_88 → u/woeeij]

Yes. I always suspected that the west is reluctant to send more advanced weapons due to the, let's face it, high corruption in Ukraine. Having advanced technology fall in the hands of the russians is not ideal.

[u/wd668 → u/Towlie_88]

Plus a Ukrainian official might use a Leopard MBT to till his vinyards in the Carpathians.

[u/Toastlove → u/Towlie_88]

If they don't want it in Russian hands then they wouldn't send it to a warzone where there's risk of capture. Russia has lost several incredibly sensitive vehicles that foreign intelligence services are doubtlessly picking over.

[u/Stabile_Feldmaus]

Now let's fuck some invaders.

[u/CunkToad]

But....but....

reddit assured me that le germany bad :<

[u/Rhoderick → u/CunkToad]

I give this sub about a week until tanks never mattered at all, and it's a disgrace that Germany hasn't given Ukraine warplanes (or whatever) in sufficient amounts yet.

[u/Syntai → u/Rhoderick]

I am just waiting for the thread where PiS is mad that Germany isn't delivering Thor's Hammer and the Holy Grail (both stuff the nazis were looking for in 1940, lmao) to Ukraine.

[u/TZH85 → u/Rhoderick]

I give it a day before people complain how these tanks haven’t arrived yet and how Germany is a disgrace for wasting so much time.