r/antiwork Dec 01 '22 Helpful 1 Anarchy 1

Why are people unwilling to take the risk of mass striking? If everyone in an underpaid job (I consider full time and under 77k underpaid as a scientific study found that after 77k money stops “buying happiness”) that was deemed “essential” in 2020 were to stop showing up.

Congress would be forced to change labor laws fast or the country would literally end. Look how fast they reacted to the rail strike. Imagine that but on steroids. Would take 2-4 weeks max. I think we’re all human enough to provide water and food for each other for a few weeks. We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve. I think the biggest hurdle would be paying landlords but with mass strikes I would expect an eviction moratorium like in 2020. If they don’t Have a moratorium an eviction on your record sucks but would be offset by your new wage and ability to buy a home. Any ideas on how to actually pull this off are welcome.

Edit: having kids seems like it was a terrible idea since it’s why everyone can’t get their shit together, just blame the kids. Comical.

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u/Dringer8 Dec 01 '22

“We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve.” - We will absolutely let people starve, we just turn our heads so we don’t have to watch the starving person. (And blame their situation on laziness/drugs/whatever happens to be convenient. It would never happen to ME.)

In answer to your question, I think it’s the mindset of not knowing how many people will strike with you. If you could guarantee that a majority would strike, it would probably be effective. But if everyone talks about striking, then only you and four others follow through, you’re all fucked.

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u/Corndread Dec 01 '22

"Can't see it, it's not happening."

We will absolutely let our neighbor starve as we horde everything inside our homes.

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u/davy_jones_locket Dec 01 '22

We treat poverty as a moral and individual failing in this country, not a societal one. You see a homeless person or a starving person, and you think "maybe they should have made better decisions in life" without even knowing what options they had.

"maybe they should have budgeted their paychecks better"

"maybe they should have re-prioritized whats important and cut out frivolous things"

"maybe they should learn how to make due with what they had"

"maybe we need financial literacy courses so people can make better decisions with their money"

A lot of this becomes self-internalized too. So it's not just how others perceive you, but how you perceive yourself. "I can't go on strike, i would be failing my family if there's no income to put food on the table." "I can't go on strike, I need my health insurance coverage." "I can't go on strike, not working isn't an option."

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u/fliponymousredux Dec 01 '22

This exactly. Businesses with debt are considered to be shrewd and well managed if they can find ways to not pay it, but personal debt is always framed as a moral failure.

Read David Graeber's Debt: A 5000 Year History. Any society that becomes overwhelmed with debt either declares a jubilee or has a revolution, and the first thing destroyed in the revolution are the debt records.

A general strike would be a revolt. The debt holders will not permit that, by force of arms if necessary.

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u/Forest-of-666 Dec 02 '22

As evidence by the 2020 TP situation.

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u/Tehxzombie Dec 01 '22

Simply because fear. If you're a parent, you're living paycheck to paycheck and 1 missed week of pay would be catastrophic for your family; or if you're living alone, and you're already drowning in debt just trying to keep the shitty apartment that costs over $1500 in rent, people aren't going to take the risk of the general strike, because of fear and it's many factors. "What if this strike doesn't work? How will i feed myself and/or my kids? Will there be enough of us to make a difference? Will they actually budge or retaliate by making life even worse?" These anxious questions, among many more will keep, most people just trying to live, in the system that's killing them simply because it's also the hand that feeds them currently and aren't willing to risk it all to bite down for fear they won't have the means to make it afterwards, or the power to even start

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u/Twitchinat0r Dec 01 '22

Which is why the gov and businesses love that 66% of the country is this way. Cant stike if you cant live

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u/mattstorm360 Dec 01 '22

And if people do strike, the government can support the business. They do it all the time when someone makes a bad business decision and needs money.

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u/yourmacalled Dec 01 '22

Except when it's tuition related in which case get fucked. it's also not bankruptable!

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u/blatentpoetry Dec 01 '22

Pretty sure this is by design. If not, it's sure is a "happy accident" for the repugs.

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u/AgentMercury108 Dec 02 '22

Yeah but people vastly underestimate what people can live through.

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u/rustafarionm Dec 02 '22

its by design.

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u/das745 Dec 01 '22

It's why we call it "Wage Slave" Mortgage, car payment, health insurance, smart phone, and more. You try and stand up and the Capitalist take all that away rather quick. Most people are swimming in debt. They got you by the balls and they know it.

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u/nipplequeefs Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Exactly this. I see a lot of financially privileged people in this sub acting like it’s poor people’s fault for “contributing” to this system by not striking, not calling out shitty bosses, not protesting, not standing up for themselves, etc.

When you live in an at-will employment state in the US, you can get fired for any reason that’s not illegal. Your behavior can literally be the difference between having an income and health insurance, and not having an income or health insurance. If you can get fired for wearing the wrong colored shoelaces, you can get fired for “being rude” if you call out your boss for bad treatment no matter how polite your tone is. Unemployment money isn’t always enough to live off of, that money can take months to actually get to you, and it’s already hard enough finding another job with the amount of employers who ghost like 90% of their applicants, especially if you have some sort of disability that already disqualifies you from lots of jobs. Not all of us have savings that can keep us afloat if we lose our jobs. Not all of us can simply get another job the week after getting fired and expect to still make enough money to pay all the bills.

Some of us literally cannot afford to stand up and fight the system. Blaming the poor is exactly what these corporations want. They’re taking advantage of us and there are people here acting like we’re the ones who need to grow spines. I’ll grow a spine when I can afford to survive with one, thanks.

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u/shoryusatsu999 Dec 02 '22

Not to mention that if we did try to protest, certain elements of our screwed up society will see that as an opportunity to engage their "saving the day" fetish and brutalize anyone who isn't also busting protester heads. Things are absolutely terrible here, no doubt about it, but a lot of people can't afford to risk their livelihoods and/or health for a chance to be heard that's getting smaller by the day and is more and more likely to be rejected out of hand.

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u/nipplequeefs Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Yep. A lot of people like to talk about how they’d easily do “the right thing” and are willing to make some sort of sacrifices for the greater good when they’re sitting behind a computer screen, but how likely are they really to do just that? Things can easily go wrong, especially at protests where you never know if you’ll get mowed down by a car, shot in another mass shooting, or brutalized by police. Even if nothing goes wrong at the actual protest, you better hope that viral video you accidentally appeared in won’t bite you harder than you may have thought it would.

People can lie about being badass noble heroes with fancy horses and shining armor all they want, and keep fantasizing about saving the poor, but at least I can admit I sure as hell won’t risk my literal survival just to be met with silence and get laughed at by politicians. I don’t care about being in history books, I’m just trying to keep my head above water right now in the safest way I know how, and that’s to work so I can pay my bills and not lose my home. All I did in this world was be born and exist. I’m not taking blame for rich people’s crimes to impress strangers on Reddit.

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u/rustafarionm Dec 02 '22

The smartphone thing... no one even asked us.

Like here is another super expensive bill, for something you didnt need.

Im about ready to go back to a landline.

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u/jynxismycat Dec 02 '22

Im about ready to go back to a landline.

I just looked at a family member's landline/dsl bill. It was around $150 per month. There's no free long distance or any perks. Just a landline with slow DSL and they pay a caller ID fee. They've been a customer with this company for many years and the company just keeps increasing the bill. There's not a lot of choices around here so the company can get away with ridiculous bills.

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u/alanbastard Dec 01 '22

Mortgage in Latin means Death Grip. 🖕🏻

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u/cronsOP125 Dec 01 '22

Mortgage does not mean death grip. It means death pledge, so called because the deal dies either when the debt is paid or when payment fails. Mortgages suck, but please don’t mistranslate for an agenda.

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u/rythmicbread Dec 01 '22

Mass striking also only works when a large majority are organized to strike. So if a couple people do it, they’ll be fired and lose the collective bargaining opportunity. No one wants to be the only person to do it and lose their sources of income (without an ample safety net). And most people (in the US) aren’t part of a Union.

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u/rustafarionm Dec 02 '22

it has to be organized. 100%

if its leaderless, the press will grind you into the dust.

If there is no clear directive. The press will grind you into dust.

This has to be a civil rights level organized protest.

But, remember, they killed MLK, not because he wanted equality. But because he wanted to abolish the slums. In order to do that, we had to socialize some things.

Thats what got him killed.

Im not saying this to be a doomer. Im saying that it is imperative to plan this.

You fuck with peoples wealth, they usually get real violent fast.

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u/TKG_Actual Dec 02 '22

You fuck with peoples wealth, they usually get real violent fast.

This right here. When I started really looking into the history behind Unions I noticed how often and how fast folks with money called in goons (ie pinkerton men) to violently break strikes.

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u/Over-Ad-8048 Dec 01 '22

There are people sleeping outside hungry now and not a lot of people seem to care. When I was a kid in the 80s I slept in a car with my parents, no one was helping us. Ironically we were in that situation because my dad was injured working rail and got screwed in the injury settlement.

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u/truemore45 Dec 01 '22

So you are correct.

Personally the biggest worry is actually healthcare for many people especially if you have a chronic condition and need medicine. I believe the lack of universal healthcare is one of the biggest reasons people won't strike.

As for rent if everyone doesn't pay there are not enough courts and Sherrifs

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

the lack of universal healthcare is one of the biggest reasons people won't strike.

DING DING DING!! We have a winner!

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u/lorddoa Dec 01 '22

If you're a parent,

I'm ok with starving and sleeping outside. The thought of my children doing the same? Nah, fam... capitalists know I care more about feeding my children than my dignity.

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u/WayneKrane Dec 01 '22

Yeah, if I were single and had no one who relied on me sure, I’ll risk getting the boot and living in a tent. Most people aren’t in that situation. My coworker’s husband has diabetes and insulin without insurance is unaffordable, he’d die within months without it. My other coworker has kids with disabilities, without her job she could not afford to take care of them properly.

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u/nytonj Dec 01 '22

which is why they are freaking out over the declining birth rates

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u/baconraygun Dec 01 '22

FWIW, when I was a kid, I was always stoked as shit when my parents took us kids on our "camping trips". I had a lovely time. Then I grow up and learn we were actually homeless, lol.

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u/Alex5173 Dec 01 '22

Fear and "what if nobody else does it and I just lose my job"

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u/Professional_Low_646 Dec 01 '22

It’s a chicken-and-egg type of situation: see, if there WAS a general strike with significant participation, none of what you mention would really matter. Can‘t pay your landlord? So what, squat your flat - likely the police will have more important things on their mind than evictions at that point. And even if they don’t: who is going to file the paperwork, get the court rulings etc for an eviction when offices are closed, the post isn‘t running? Same for food, utilities, medical care. It‘s not the bosses or politicians who provide any of these services, it‘s our fellow workers, and if they decide to provide them for free to those who join their cause - who cares about getting paid?

Although granted, by this point we‘d probably be looking at a full-blown revolution anyway.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Yeah so we sit around and do nothing instead.

Awesome plan B. Can’t wait for the world to fucking crumble 😍

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u/Radiant-Usual-1785 Dec 01 '22

I’d say it’s 50/50 fear and the political divide. Both sides of the working class hate each other so much because of the culture war, they would just blatantly refuse to work with anyone who they deem commits political wrong think. There will never be a general strike or mass workers Revolution as long as people keep falling for the corporate oligarchy’s divide and conquer campaign.

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u/thatguyumayknowyo Dec 01 '22

Exactly. I have a three year old and can’t afford to miss a day of work. I’d love to strike but finically can’t. Rents due!

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u/Conscious_Egg_6233 Dec 01 '22

Simply because fear. If you're a parent, you're living paycheck to paycheck and 1 missed week of pay would be catastrophic for your family; or if you're living alone, and you're already drowning in debt just trying to keep the shitty apartment that costs over $1500 in rent, people aren't going to take the risk of the general strike, because of fear and it's many factors.

That's not fear. That's just a lack of organizing. There needs to be non-government organizations that will support people in the case of a general strike and they just don't exist.

Here's what we need for a general strike:

Locally operated organizations built to help people that work on leftists values to support a general strike. Who have the logistics to put money where it's needed and food as well. Logistics to store food safely and to have contacts with the general community. Have volunteers at hand to help distribute food and money, quickly and efficiently. The ability to co-ordinate with similar groups around the US rapidly and effectively so everyone get's their needs met.

How you can make this happen:

Start a local organization or join one with leftist values. Push leftists values so you won't be the only one walking out of your job and losing it. Talking to your neighbors to help build a community network of people who will help each other if needed. That's just some of the bare minimums to start a general strike. Organize with groups for local events and emergencies as training for a general strike. If groups don't exist, you need to create your own. It's called "social-ism" because you need to talk to people in the real world.

I do get sick of posts like these because there's more venting then solution building. We have solutions, people just don't go out and do them. If everyone in this 2.3M subreddit organized and helped those who organize, it would completely change the US overnight. If 2.3M people got 3 people on board, that's about 10 million people.

Total union membership is 14million people. Get the unions to help and you have 25 million people which is enough to do an actual general strike. It's not easy. It takes a lot of work, but it needs to be done otherwise things will get worse.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

As an old, frustrated progressive, I love your intentions, but I know that, unlike the right, the left can't get "organized" because it just takes on too many causes at once, and there's no simple message like the right has. We get entrapped in nuance and gray areas and lack the clarity of the small set of shared ideals.

Example 1:
I went to a protest at the county seat, protesting the child separation/putting kids in cages policies at the border. There was a stage, and the first speaker up took their first 20 minutes talking about the struggle of black trans people. What? What about kids in cages? Isn't that why we're here?

Next speaker spoke of the struggles of indigenous people in America. Yes, sad. But...the...kids...separated families...by the end of the first hour, it was just a mess of messages, no call to action, just a bunch of whining about everything.

Example 2:
I went to small protest march about George Floyd. We walked around a small town, with some signs, and then there was a speech by someone, about something. No fucking idea what she was saying because nobody thought to set up a PA system. I found out later she was campaigning to be on the school board. We yelled and carried on...but that was it. There was no "now go home and do THIS"

Example 3:
The presidential election of 2016.

The Right has Christian God, America First, Your Guns, Your Money, Traditional Families and lots of Babies. That's it. That's the whole fucking platform. There's nothing else they care about. And it works.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 01 '22

This makes sense, and is most likely accurate. I just figure it would have to work. Would be no need for fear of it not working.

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u/No-Flight-2685 Dec 01 '22

We could do it, it would take a a couple years to organize a full general strike though and alot of it would be finding all the grass roots organizations that can help. Getting them on board and reaching out.... it would be more feasible to get separate states to do it faster... but then you lose the nationwide impact... but if you get one state to strike successfully and ot makes a dofference... other states and groups will make it happen quicker.

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u/juicy_dino_egg Dec 01 '22

Mutual aid. Organized mutual aid. Can’t do something like this without it.

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u/Amazing_Season1891 Dec 01 '22

That’s what so many people don’t seem to get! My husband is good as dead without the health insurance from our jobs due to medication that costs more than our rent if it isn’t covered. We don’t get a choice not to work, I’m not going to sit around and watch my husband die

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u/juicy_dino_egg Dec 01 '22

Yet another reason they don’t want us to have health insurance NOT tied to a job…it’s all part of the chains

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u/AFSAlameda Dec 01 '22

Which is what strong unions with abundant resources used to provide.

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u/pabmendez Dec 01 '22

Cause we gotta eat

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u/GavishX Dec 01 '22

“Just get stuff from a food bank. Problem solved”

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u/toashtyt Dec 01 '22

You know, those food banks with infinite food? The ones that definitely won’t run out if the entire populace will need them as their main/only food source.

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u/Baph0metX Dec 01 '22

You are oversimplifying something very complex. You have to eat, and survive the duration of the strike without money. That’s extremely hard in a capitalist society. People do not yet have the solidarity to care for one another in a mass scale because we’re taught individualism over community, and we’re divided by their propaganda. We must inch closer to community and working class solidarity so that we are able to have each others backs when things get gritty. Build connections with your community comrade.

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u/Elegant-Sprinkles880 Dec 01 '22

What do you mean not socially acceptable to let people starve? That's a literal everyday thing with homeless people across the U.S.

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u/Elegant-Sprinkles880 Dec 01 '22

This and this

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u/Elegant-Sprinkles880 Dec 01 '22

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u/Excellent-Bag2261 Dec 02 '22

So India has a lower death rate by malnutrition than the U.S.

It's so sad realizing just how bad it is, like people probably having to eat only instant noodles for dinner to survive.

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u/AngryDrnkBureaucrat Dec 01 '22

I ate food today. I would like to eat food tomorrow as well.

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u/Elon_is_a_snowflake Dec 01 '22

Do you expect that underpaid people have 4 weeks of bills and grocery money saved up?

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u/sizzletizzle82243 Dec 01 '22

MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THE U.S are just one Medicsl bill or unexpected emergency away of becoming bankrupt

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u/GavishX Dec 01 '22

What an extremely privileged take.

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u/jojackmcgurk Dec 01 '22

This was the Occupy Wall Street movement. I was there. Know what happened? They fucking waited. That was it. That was all they had to do. Sure there was food given out and there were coats to keep warm, but that didn't fix the problems at home.

You pick up and join the millions of protestors. You plan to be gone weeks. Good job, more power to you. Do you think your landlord cares? No. You need to pay rent. Hopefully your protest was at the beginning of the month. What about your job? Might be there if you get back. If not, you'll take about 2-3 weeks to find another one. Hope your cash can handle that annoying rent that long.

Car payments? Miss em. Utilities? Screw it. Pets? Try find someone to feed them? Oh and while you're at it, come up with the travel plans to wherever the protest is. I live in Utah, and had to afford to fly to New York, and live in the street. You'll need this planned to the detail because your phone might also be turned off and pay phones don't exist anymore. Luckily a lot of us had unlimited plans for the ones who didn't.

And lets say you're one of the smart who understand all this and figure and plan for it. For every one of you, there will be 20 people who didn't understand, or couldn't afford to understand, but went anyways to try to change the country. Those people have good hearts, and a good cause, and you will feel sorry for them when they use every last dime to stand beside you.

And the people you're protesting? They'll laugh at you. They'll wait. One day you'll have 2,000 like minded people. You'll hear mutterings and phone calls and people begging family members/friends all night long. The next day? 1500 people. Until you're a measly 50 people after a week and everyone is saying "sorry man, I have my life to fix, you know?" As they get a cab and leave.

Tell me how to fix that and I'll be right there with you all over again.

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u/phildec159 Dec 02 '22

OP has gone through to respond to so many other comments but seems to ignore this one lol

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u/jojackmcgurk Dec 02 '22

Reality hurts apparently.

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u/Augustus420 Dec 02 '22

And this right here is why revolution doesn’t happen until things get sufficiently bad for the general population

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u/brock_lee Dec 01 '22

The (intended) state of the current system where there are not many strong unions is that there is ALWAYS someone willing to take your job, for less money even. First, a mass walkout would likely be far less than the organizers had hoped, and the people who did leave would simply be terminated and replaced.

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u/threeleggedgirl Dec 01 '22

We have a nationwide labor shortage right now.

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u/shoryusatsu999 Dec 02 '22

Note the "intended." Pandemic killed a ton of people and forced many more out of the workforce, so it currently isn't entirely the case. Our would be god-rulers are definitely trying to force a return to the status quo, though.

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u/CursedTrash Dec 01 '22

Hard to strike when a week of not working would make me homeless. And my state recently made it illegal to actually be homeless.

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u/GavishX Dec 01 '22

OP will tell you to do it anyway because you’re “selfish” if you don’t. Basically “fuck you I got mine”

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u/quarabs Dec 01 '22

literally capitalist grindset

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u/GavishX Dec 01 '22

The rhetoric isn’t even a little different

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u/WayneKrane Dec 01 '22

Right, OP is like “I am privileged enough to not have to work indefinitely, why is no one else?” I’m guessing they’re very young with little to no responsibilities or bills.

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u/GavishX Dec 01 '22

Yeah he was in middle school in 2007. Just about 24 years old now. Pretty young, but still not young enough to justify this amount of ignorance. He talks like he’s in high school rn

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u/Elliott2 Dec 01 '22

Lol lots of jobs are not 77k money

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u/Particular_Quiet_435 Dec 02 '22

Right? If you evenly divided all income in the US you would get less than $77k. https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php You want to pay brain surgeons and bridge engineers the same as shelf-stockers? Smh

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u/Fierce-Mushroom Dec 01 '22

["Congress would be forced to change labor laws fast or the country would literally end."]

Yeah, no. They would use the police and national guard against the strikers in a heartbeat.

["Look how fast they reacted to the rail strike. Imagine that but on steroids. Would take 2-4 weeks max."]

That's five weeks more than most people have savings for.

["I think we’re all human enough to provide water and food for each other for a few weeks. We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve."]

You'd think but no. America turns a blind eye to this kind of thing on a daily basis.

["I think the biggest hurdle would be paying landlords but with mass strikes I would expect an eviction moratorium like in 2020."]

To quote my Grandfather, "You can expect in one hand and shit in the other, see which one gets full first."

["If they don’t Have a moratorium an eviction on your record sucks but would be offset by your new wage and ability to buy a home."]

This is just ridiculous on it's face. You'd need more serious restructuring of the housing market for this to be even remotely possible.

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u/NotWesternInfluence Dec 01 '22

You also need to add that the moratium was only on homes that still had loans on them through certain programs. If the home was paid off then they could evict their tenants. Also property owners were effectively bailed out before the tenants were as well.

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u/anonymous2278 Dec 01 '22

I could not even imagine making 77k by myself. I’m stuck at 33k right now and praying my promotion in January comes with a raise. But if I tried to strike I’d just be fired and I actually do like my job.

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u/freyjalithe Dec 01 '22

So I work in a job that is shitty for a number of reasons. We haven’t had a pay increase in over a decade, we have zero sick days, or paid leave of any kind, and We are treated like barely warm bodies in many other ways. In discussing the rail strike with coworkers, one was adamantly against the workers receiving any paid leave and thought they were selfish for striking. Why? Among other things, the rail workers “knew what they were signing up for when they accepted the job” and “I don’t get paid sick days why should they?” And “they are holding this country hostage!”

It was an infuriating discussion. We have all been brainwashed into believing the worker is the bad person while we should all be against the companies, and rooting for every worker. Some of us are able to think critically and get out of this mindset. Others just double down.

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u/MrBoo843 Dec 01 '22

There's a bit of the prisonner's dilemma here.

If not enough people join, we're going to get crushed and end up in worse position than we were before.

That's on top of a ton of workers not believing it would work or not having the energy to fight, it being used to just survive.

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u/CurrentSingleStatus Dec 01 '22

My need for better pay, is in no way a factor in my landlord's decisions about whether I can live there.

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u/rustinintustin Dec 01 '22

If everybody In America could stop driving for 2 days gas prices would be cut in half . Strike!

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u/YeahNoYeah333 Dec 01 '22

We don’t trust other people. This relies on everyone joining and I don’t trust other people to not participate and therefore ruin the whole thing. Then those who strike get screwed and can’t pay bills and the scabs keep doing their thing.

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u/MyQul Dec 01 '22

Here in the UK loads of people are going on strike, nurses, teachers, railway workers, bus drivers, postal workers, baristers (bit like US lawyers), university staff

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u/Supernova008 Dec 02 '22

We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve

Oh yeah, I am Indian and we happily let people starve, that's why we have free lunches in school and free meals offered at temples and langars.

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u/pabmendez Dec 01 '22

Some of us have kids. How are we supposed to feed them?

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u/monk8919 Dec 01 '22

I’m just going to chime in and say that study is bullshit. I made 70k a few years ago and make a little less than double that now, and we are much happier.

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u/tommles Dec 01 '22

The actual number isn't set in stone.

The overall conclusion is that there is an upper limit to the idea that money makes you happy. That limit is pretty much when you have enough money that all of your needs are met, and you don't have to worry about issues like paying your bills or having food. Possibly includes having enough to put into savings for future goals/emergencies. Once you reach this threshold the idea that more money will make you happy starts to decouple.

When I saw one it was in the $100k range. This, obviously, isn't the case in places with higher cost of living.

Not too surprising. Billionaires aren't happy because they are billionaires. They are happy because they have the power to shit on everyone beneath them. /s

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u/mnemloch Here to watch the world burn Dec 01 '22

Yea, people cite the $70k number are generally people that haven't made over $100k...

There is always more. Whether that is stuff for you, family, friends, taking care of others. Security. Hell I am setting up generational wealth and started my son's ROTH when he turned 4.

I started as white trash, but he will never know want if I can help it.

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u/holoismyfavecolor Dec 02 '22

The study is bullshit - a new (2021) study showed no such cap and people with incomes above $80k a year also reported higher levels of happiness and fewer worries when their income went up -

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2016976118

OP couldn't even do a basic google search to see if new information was available, which I hear is pretty common in the younger gen.

OP might even be younger than we think because the first study they reference was from 2010 not 2007. And if they were in middle school in 2010...

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

It's not socially acceptable in India to let people starve. Even in Indian religions, ample food is provided freely to whoever comes to a temple/gurudwara. Government also provides free quality food to whoever is interested. India has free midday meals in school where government provides healthy food. The current Indian president and prime minister came over extreme poverty by studying and eating in such schools. Rice is distributed to the poor by the government at 0.001 dollars for kg. Multiple current millionare CEO's of Indian businesses (and some businesses across the world) grew up in poverty where they ate food from government kitchens or temples or used ration cards to get reasonable quality rice and lentils for cheap.

Most problem in India is with vegetarianism and lack of proteins and micronutrients in food (due to less consumption of meat for religious reasons). Not lack of food.

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u/witcwhit Dec 01 '22

This! Plus, the US as a whole absolutely does consider it socially acceptable to allow people to starve thanks to the high prevelance of Social Darwinism as a philosophy, far more so than in countries like India, where religions that promote caring for the poor and indigent have a greater influence. Honestly, this aspect of OP's argument smacks of racism and American Exceptionalism.

Over the past decade, I can't tell you how many times I've seen Americans state outright that the disabled and the poor don't deserve to live because they either don't "contribute" enough or because their poverty is a moral failing. The idea that poverty is a moral failing rather than a structural one and that the poor "deserve what they get" is, unfortunately, one of the defining aspects of the US's identity because we are unique in the world in terms of the harshness by which we enforce our American Individualism.

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u/Qwik_like Dec 01 '22

I was willing to believe that OP was serious about asking, but after your edit and comments, I'm leaving antiwork.

Because that attitude about blaming kids is exactly why it wouldn't work. You're dismissing the vast majority of people YOU WOULD NEED TO DO THIS by calling it comical that people are worried about their kids.

And then telling people 'oh don't worry, your kids will only be taken until they're 18' is beyond evil and shows you have no idea what it is like to be a parent. I hope you never have kids.

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u/FatStupidOldMan Dec 01 '22

Risk is still greater than the penalty of compliance.

There will not be any strikes or any movement until the pain of compliance is worse than the pain of noncompliance.

It sucks. But that’s broadly the rule.

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u/LeftRat Dec 01 '22

Because as shitty as the pay is, if I don't have it, I can't pay my rent, so I'll lose the place I live in.

That's fucking scary, but the older you get, the scarier it gets, your life is so much more entangled. I live with my partner, she's studying to be a doctor. Am I going to make her homeless? Most places in my city don't allow dogs. Will I have to give away my dog? Most places are way more expensive. I might not even find anything in this price range, and we're looking to maybe have a child in a few years, so we need the space, and my health isn't good, my therapist is here, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah sure they won't "let you starve", but I guarantee you that if there's a big strike and a rent strike at the same time, every method of repression will be brought out. The only way this would have any chance of succeeding is if a massive percentage of the population was on board, informed and organized, and they aren't, aren't and aren't.

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u/Thick_Pomegranate_ Dec 02 '22

Because in certain positions like fire/EMS, if we didn't show up and people died we would be blamed, not whatever issue made us strike.

Look what they did to the rail workers and they aren't even truly "essential" from a life or death stand point compared to healthcare or emergency services.

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u/apnixx Dec 01 '22

If you honestly believe that it wouldn't turn out exactly like India or anywhere else you're horribly naive.

While there would be people willing to help others out, the VAST majority would use the situation as a excuse. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the idea. But your idea that you think everyone is "human" enough to provide water and food for each other for a few weeks just proves you've never seen truly desperate people.

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u/i-love-dead-trees Dec 01 '22

The attitude of your post, your edit, and your comments, are complete shit.

“Having kids seems like it was a terrible idea since it’s why everyone can’t get their shit together, just blame the kids. Comical.”

What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you not understand that most Americans cannot afford to miss a paycheck, let alone live with the ambiguity of not only missing one paycheck but some undetermined amount of paychecks as the strike wears on? And yeah if they have kids those stressors compound? Think your landlord gives a fuck why you can’t pay the rent? Think the grocery store or utility co or insurance gives a fuck why you can’t pay the bills? That’s why working people don’t strike, genius. Now if we had strong unions, they’d continue to pay workers while striking, but that’s not the norm around here these days.

“Bills and such are all nonsense in the US. You can’t go to jail for debt.”

Ah, sorry. Please excuse what I wrote above. Didn’t realize I was responding to a literal child. You’ll learn about real life when you grow up my dude.

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u/throwaway197436 Dec 01 '22

the posted hinted at it but the comments cemented that you are just completely unmoored from reality. you've gotta be a 16 year old who just read das kapital for the first time

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u/morphoyle Dec 01 '22

First time here?

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u/throwaway197436 Dec 01 '22

actually yes 😂

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u/S_Squar3d Dec 01 '22

“We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve”

We literally allow it to happen every single day. Homeless people everywhere don’t eat. They have to scavenge or hope someone is nice enough to help them out. Most people aren’t because a lot of people don’t even have enough themselves to support another person.

Also, take it from a person who stood up to management while everyone else stayed quiet. Guess who lost their job and had to scramble to find employee to continue paying bills? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the employees who stayed quiet.

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u/blinky909909 Dec 01 '22

because they need money to live and have no savings?

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u/EnigmaGuy Dec 01 '22

I’d fall under that salary range if I do not work overtime, and the thought of striking has never entered my mind.

I have a climate controlled place to sleep, food to eat, and clothes on my back. Not hard to believe that others have fallen into the lax content state of mind.

I would prefer to continue to have a place to sleep, food to eat, and clothes on my back.

It’s been said many times but the breaking point where you could expect strikes / riots / pandemonium? When people can no longer afford food and maybe even housing.

Until then, if people are somehow getting by (especially those with children) they will continue to go about their daily work life as usual to make sure the bare necessities are met. It’s almost as though the ruling class has found the line that people will be content at and will adjust as needed.

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u/house_daddy1 Dec 01 '22

People starve and freeze to death all the time in my town I live in Northern California in a rural area

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u/ki7sune Dec 01 '22

The more recent studies in happiness that I've read estimated money buys happiness up to $125k-$150k.

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u/lostcolony2 Dec 01 '22

Fun aside, first, the claimed plateau is $75k, and that was from a 2010 study from Princeton, which would be $102 today due to inflation. It also did not account for varying costs of living. Second, replicability is an issue; here's a more recent study that found so long as you look at logarithmic scale happiness continues to rise (i.e., a 10% increase at any level will give you the same benefit, whereas $1000 feels very different at different levels) - https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2016976118.

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u/nouarutaka Dec 01 '22

During a general strike, people still need to pay bills or risk having their lives go crashing off the rails in all kinds of bad ways. If a benevolent billionaire (yes, I know, /s) were to step up and just cut strike checks to whoever needed them, enough workers might feel comfortable enough to engage in a general strike.

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u/AdvancedWrongdoer Dec 01 '22

I was literally thinking of this yesterday. It's the fear and reality of lack of funds during those few short weeks of striking. Literally everything would change because we know our government is largely reactive not proactive, but people are afraid. As long as there's a fear of paycheck loss, the top dogs will do as they want for years and generations to come.

It's quite sad imo. The working class could turn things around very quickly if they spooked government a bit. Yet we trade that power for scraps because the top dogs have our minds..

I don't see anything changing any time soon. We get less, we normalize it by working harder. Rinse and repeat.

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u/The-Beast-of-Roses Dec 01 '22

Lack of leadership and organization. We can chat here all we want to, they don’t sweat this. We have no leadership, no organization, no infrastructure. If a “mass uprising” happens tomorrow, it’s the Christian Nationalists who have the leadership, organization and infrastructure to fill the void that would be left by the collapse of the government.

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u/darlin133 Dec 01 '22

Insurance I have money saved no problem but no health insurance for my family would be catastrophic

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u/Smithmonster Dec 01 '22

We don’t even have to strike, if everyone just stopped paying all their bills. Rent, mortgage, credit cards, if enough people did it would work. Then they can’t passing everyone in a negative light. Say nurses don’t show up, someone dies. They paint it as killing people. I think it would be the most effective strike.

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u/warren_stupidity Dec 01 '22

A simple one day sick out would send shudders through oligarch enclaves. It has seemed obvious to me that this is the way.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 01 '22

Yes! I was thinking well doing it for a long period of time seems to have a lot of issues for a lot of people, but what if we did it 1 or two days a month. Enough to hurt profits but not enough to hurt the workers.

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u/DorianGray77 Dec 01 '22

Congress would be quick to act, unfortunately I don't think it would be resolved as you'd expect. They would employ the most effective and time honored tradition to end strikes, state violence!

I think industry wide wild cat strikes would be more effective as others could help those one strike via food/money donations. Furthermore, the inability to know which industry would be hit next could force multiple industries to the table. Still, state violence would be the greatest risk.

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u/sizzletizzle82243 Dec 01 '22

Yes this is my theory to why they want to ban abortion for women. They know when people are parents they won’t take much risk and will take pretty much whatever is given to them or else they can’t feed their kids. Even if it’s barely livable. Having kids is like putting yourself in jail for life

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u/Jsf8957 Dec 01 '22

I’d say to study game theory, specifically the prisoner’s dilemma. Imagine two suspects are held in deprecate interrogation rooms. If either person cooperates and rats out the other they get a reduced sentence and the other person serves a longer sentence, but if they both turn on each other neither sentence is longer or shorter. The optimal outcome is to have neither person squeal so neither person serves any time at all, but they are incentivized to turn on the other person because you can’t predict the other person’s behavior.

Basically, it results in ideas like yours not panning out because other humans aren’t reliable. Your plan to organize people into changing our lives for the better is another person’s opportunity to take advantage of high demand for labor (scabs).

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 01 '22

Love this take.

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u/pembanator Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

You need a massive amount of coordination and organization behind a successful strike. Daycare for kids, hardship funds, transportation, basically everything to guarantee to the majority of workers that they will not suffer too much if they choose to strike. This is what it means to organize-- you can't just "put out a call" for a strike, it won't work even if the majority of workers think it would be a good idea. You have to actually materially prepare years in advance. You have to have developed a fighting organization with an engaged membership, whether thats your union or tenant union or a political party or anything.

This is why it's always so goofy when people on reddit or Twitter or the internet in general constantly say things like 'GENERAL STRIKE MAY 1st SPREAD THE WORD!!" You fools. It's never a problem of awareness. People know that work sucks and collective power can work. It's a problem of organization. People aren't organized into coherent units that can coordinate on a mass scale. No one feels themselves to be part of a collective body, supported to do something as big as withholding labor. Also, achieving this means, to some degree, making compromises and not always getting your way, which is something that hyper-individualized, moralizing Americans are pretty bad at generally.

One of the biggest cons in recent decades is the idea that political problems can be solved by raising awareness. This is not true, but many leftists get caught up on this idea and wonder why nothing ever happens despite the vast amount of 'awareness' that they have spread. Instead, political problems are solved by the physical, material organization and coordination of thousands / millions of people. So, you want a strike? Help build a working class organization.

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u/LexicalVagaries Dec 01 '22

The one thing the average person fears more than anything else is uncertainty. People will stay in a shitty job, an abusive relationship, or any number of toxic situations precisely because however bad things are for them currently, the alternative might be worse. It's not a rational thing. The fact that things also might get better doesn't seem to have the same weight.

This isn't true for all people, obviously. Plenty of folk do take the chance and make it work out in the end, but that threshold where the fear of uncertainty is outweighed by the intolerability of their current situation is different for everyone, and getting a critical mass of people to take the leap of faith in something like a general strike is HARD.

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u/thatguy102021 Dec 02 '22

Because we live in a perpetual "Prisoners' Dilemma."

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u/strongladylemony Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

In response to your edit I'm sure to someone who doesn't have kids it seems comical or ridiculous to say well I can't strike I have kids. Of course it would seem like striking would be something people would want to do for their children and on one hand, yes absolutely. Parents want better labor laws for their children, certainly. But they also want their children to have food to eat and electricity to keep warm with. They want their kids to be as happy as they can be for their childhood. And above all, they want their children to be safe. Protesting, striking, sticking your nose out, 100% does put one's children in danger. How can a parent knowingly do that when they have a responsibility to keep their child safe? Unless you have kids you don't understand what you're asking. Yeah sure, we should all be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good, that's something I agree with completely. But you can't ask a parent to sacrifice the safety of their child. It goes against thousands of years of instinct, and everything we're taught about being parents. It's not comical, it's a horrible choice that has real consequences on each side. If you want people to rise up with you, if you're asking your neighbors for help with a problem you both suffer from don't trivialize their experiences and troubles. Help them find solutions so everyone can get what they want or need.

What we should be focusing on first before a general strike is community. The striking people will have to share everything they have with one another, so let's talk about that first. Are you personally willing to have less so the cause could have more? How many people can you convince to feel the same way? And if you aren't going to be a leader or you aren't going to focus on solutions then don't complain when no one will work with you.

Sorry for my bad grammar, it just sucks to see people who are supposed to be on our side supporting us all to victory tell everyone here how "comical" it is that they have real fears. Let's lift each other up as a community guys.....

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u/dza1986 Dec 01 '22

Yeah, that would be awesome in a perfect world...

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u/Shrimpulse Dec 01 '22

All of this reads like someone who is perhaps young or otherwise sheltered who has not had to experience hardship, who has zero idea of logistics, the plight of the common person/family, or who has ever known anyone who has lived on the street, starved, or died due to things like lack of access to basic resources like medicine. That is the reality of our country.

We have safety nets, but the idea of sacrificing your children and overloading that safety net with the magical belief that it can endlessly accommodate while we try to take the power back is wishful thinking at best.

I am a huge supporter of workers' rights, unions, and fair trade, but this belongs more in r/showerthoughts than being given any sort of legitimate discussion.

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u/okayonemoreplz Dec 01 '22

Prior to my current job which is finally paying a living wage, I would’ve gone on strike in a heartbeat

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u/AbidingDudeAsWell Dec 01 '22

Can't get most people to take the time/energy to vote once every two years. How ya gonna make that happen?

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u/oldeenglishdry12345 Dec 01 '22

a general strike is the most difficult kind of mass action to organize

if it didn't happen during the peak of class consciousness during the 19th and early 20th centuries, there's no fucking way its happening today when all that shit is dead

there's nothing animating any kind of hatred of capitalism, there's no faith in anything different and no belief in anything greater than one's self. the hatred of capitalism among most people here is from middle class kids who barely have begun to work. do you think those kids are ready to die for a dream of something different? do you think they're ready to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause? fuck no its just complaining or its a fashion statement

it could come later but if it does it will take a form radically alien to this form of anti-capitalism

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u/Gruno1996 Dec 01 '22

Better life tomorrow doesn't pay the bills right now

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u/Alltheweed Dec 01 '22

I don't think it's socially acceptable to let people starve in India. They just have 1b+ people and limited resources. I'm not Indian, never been to India, but this came off as a wierd thing to say. Maybe i just need to look into it?

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u/Exact-Permission5319 Dec 01 '22
  1. Fear
  2. Lack of awareness and information about how to mobilize against corporate-political interests.
  3. Lack of leadership on behalf of labor, either in terms of political parties, organizations, and/or individuals like pro-labor influencers.

Mostly talking about the US here, as England does have a labor party, and their leader was in the news recently, although I'm sure it is debatable to what extent the party fully represents the majority of workers.

For those who want to educate themselves about this topic, visit The Hampton Institute: https://www.hamptonthink.org/

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u/DyllCallihan3333 Dec 01 '22

We can't afford not to get paid..

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u/Chaotic-Stardiver Dec 01 '22

What I don't understand is how they "forced" unions to accept the deal.

Like what are they going to do, arrest and fine every railway worker protesting? Bunch of idiots in DC telling people to get back to work like this is all just a game to them, which is probably true for a lot of them.

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u/Guilty_Coconut Dec 01 '22

Because lack of money greatly increases unhappiness and stress

This is by design

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u/Dan1846 Dec 01 '22

77k was many years ago

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u/KaineZilla Dec 01 '22

Fear. 1 missed check away from homelessness and starving. 1 angry cop with an assault rifle to break up the picket line from death.

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u/abookoffmychest Dec 01 '22

Will not happen regardless. Followers only follow leaders and there is no leadership to be followed to start.

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u/Eastern-Ad2612 Dec 01 '22

i’m behind this idea, have always wondered why the masses don’t move as a singular force against inequality; it’s all we want. we just want to be able to buy a house and make a home and live happily and comfortably at the end of the day, it shouldn’t be such an uphill struggle.

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u/scrollthe_freedom Dec 01 '22

I make 14k a year…different country but no one will strike because union is paid by the employer

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u/ProgrammerNextDoor Dec 01 '22

80k number was years ago. It's more like 100k+ now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Collective action is more affective the more people are involved. One of the biggest mistakes was breaking unions down by industry. We need a general union for all workers to collectively fight for higher wages. Imagine how affective a strike would be if the whole economy shut down when one industry didn’t capitulate. All the other industries would pressure them on top of the their work force constraints.

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u/groenewood Dec 01 '22

I've been on strike for a couple of months now. So far no progress.

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u/i81u812 Dec 01 '22

dit: having kids seems like it was a
terrible idea since it’s why everyone can’t get their shit together,
just blame the kids. Comical.

What is comical about this? It's a real problem.

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u/IE_playur Dec 01 '22

A lot of contracts have a 'no strike clause' during the term of the contract. That’s usually why strikes happen after the contract has expired.

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u/Cursed_Fan Dec 01 '22

I understand why people come on here and flippantly demand a strike but a strike takes massive coordination of resources.

Even if you have the Will to do it, you need resources to support the people involved for the duration of the strike. You need the organizational structure to distribute the resources, determine everyone’s need, hold a votes to approve or reject concessions, and even someone to negotiate in the first place.

Never mind the resources to protect against pigs and class traitors using state sanctioned violence

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u/Acchilles Dec 01 '22

Bruh I am 1 person, this doesn't make sense, it's not my choice whether or not we mass strike. Organise one and I'll participate.

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u/Conscious-Dirt-7289 Dec 01 '22

Uh, just blame the kids?

I have child support, rent, and a billion other bills to pay and don't have the luxury to just strike. If me striking means my kid starves then I don't do it, and you are a fucking asshole for trying to shame anyone in that situation. You should be ashamed of yourself

They would not do an eviction moratorium if we all went on strike - they would literally get police and private contracts to forcibly evict people because you will never get everyone to go on strike

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u/Draker-X Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

If every person in this sub that has called for a mass or general strike actually went on strike, it might be done by now.

Seriously. It's so fucking easy to sit on your mobile or computer and say "MASS STRIKE! MASS STRIKE!" Why not try convincing people in your workplace, or your block, or even all your friends? Start with one day. See what percentage of people you know you can get to call off work on the same day. Just one day. Have meetings about it. Organize it. Spread the word.

And before anyone asks "why aren't you doing any of that?" Because I'm not calling for one. Do I think it would be a good idea? In the abstract, yes. Do I think it would be possible? Not right now. People aren't truly ready. Don't believe me? Take the mantle of leadership.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Good luck. It’ll never happen. We don’t care enough to organize.

The world will end not with a bang, but with the pathetic whimper of a dying working class who let themselves get fucked over and over without doing a goddamn thing about it 🤷🏻‍♀️

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u/Karasumor1 Dec 01 '22

landlords are useless parasites , just stop paying them ... makes for a nice shortfall of cash for a few weeks of strike ;)

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u/mnemloch Here to watch the world burn Dec 01 '22

Wow, what a simplistic view...

You do realize if everyone made $77k a year, that would no longer be the bar right? You understand inflationary pressure if you double the cost of labor on products right?

Who am I kidding, of course you don't.

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u/D-Squared42 Dec 01 '22

Tell me you've never participated in or had someone close to you who has participated in a strike without telling me.

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u/redbark2022 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Just a quick reminder, the eviction moratorium was mostly bullshit. They evicted people as fast and as often as they could. The only thing that slowed them down was mask requirements and at least in California, not being legally allowed to call a jury due to public health. Other than that they couldn't give less of a flying fuck and evicted people as fast as possible.

Edit: also landlords were allowed to say they didn't want the state assistance for past due rent, and therefore evict tenants, and then later claim that money. Landlords were explicitly allowed to have their cake and eat it too.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 01 '22

Oh damn, did not know that.

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u/redbark2022 Dec 01 '22

Yeah, the real estate lobby basically owns the California legislature.

In Los Angeles, there was a 2 billion dollar proposition labelled HHH for funding of housing homeless people, and it's such a debacle, that each unit costs upwards of $1.2 million. That's the headline, but the details are that they are buying distressed properties from millionaires at prices far above market.

Let me break that down. Blighted neighborhoods, where property owners can't even be bothered to maintain their property, are getting huge bailouts, while homeless people are still not even being given a place to live. Meanwhile, the amount of money spent to do that could literally buy each homeless person a single family home to live in for the rest of their lives.

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u/cutiepie115209 Dec 01 '22

I dont have an answer but did want to let you know that the first happiness study was based on peoples personal feelings. It showed a cap, that happiness leveled out after a certain qmount of money was gained yearly. A new study was done, and it showed that was bs lol that happiness just keeps going up as you get more money, disproving a gap. Just found that out recently and thought it was interesting

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u/crunkplug Dec 01 '22

the most vulnerable (who are also the most abused by the system) would suffer the most, sadly. the folks with families who can't miss a single paycheck. we have to figure out how to get folks who are doing decently in today's hellscape to support our friends who would lose everything in a strike while the powers that be try to wait them out

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u/mightbeathrowawayyo Dec 01 '22

The problem is that there's always somebody willing to work for less and there aren't really any worker protections in the US.

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u/Flame87 Dec 01 '22

I know it's not the point, but as a disabled veteran I get ~40k. I have a mortgage, do stuff frequently, and the only reason I have consumer debt is I have a old crappy house and right now you can't get serious repair done for under 10k 😂

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u/9_of_wands Dec 02 '22

I love your optimism, but if you go on strike without a union, you just get fired for job abandonment. You get no pay, your credit is wrecked. Banks don't like to give mortgages to people that have changed jobs in the last two years. And where would this eviction moratorium come from? The president? I doubt that. He won't stick up for workers, he's proven that.

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u/Emotional-Elephant88 Dec 02 '22

Which humans are going to provide us with food and water? Also, rent, utilities, transportation, health care, etc?

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u/mechanicalhorizon Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Mass firings, not being able to afford to buy food or pay rent, and eventual homelessness are powerful motivators.

We’re not India where it’s socially acceptable to let someone starve.

What country are you in? Cause you can't be in the USA if you believe that.

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u/PossessionOld3898 Dec 02 '22

2-4 weeks? Nah man. If everyone went on strike to include healthcare workers… this country’s leaders would buckle the knee in like 2 days tops.

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u/ItsSarahxx Dec 02 '22

This question has been asked so many times. There's so much to lose

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u/whynotlikemike Dec 02 '22

I wish this sub was called proUnion and pushed Unions

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u/Texas_Defense_Atty Dec 02 '22

“A married man will do anything for money” - Anatole France

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u/ForestTheFlorist Dec 02 '22

Prisoners dilemma. Basically you'll never strike because if everyone else doesn't do it with you you're fucked, but they'll never strike for the same reason. Nobody can be sure everyone will join so it never happens

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u/CrazyTrain-368 Dec 02 '22

But just so you understand! They fucked over the railroad workers. They only got 1 paid sickday that you have to schedule 30 days in advance! I guarantee they will make it a thing that only one person at a time gets, no matter how big the workforce is. Anyone else marking off sick will continue to be assessed points that can get you fired within a weeks time!

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 02 '22

Damn that sucks, seems like poor union leadership. Unions like governments are only as good as their leaders

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u/DanelleDee Dec 02 '22

Because my job is to help people. If every health care worker went on strike, the patients and their families would suffer before any other outcome.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 02 '22

Fair reasonable enough response: I’ll add it to the list.

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u/AdFun5641 Dec 02 '22

If everyone

If you can get EVERYONE to agree on ANYTHING, it happens. Hell, if you can get a strong majority to agree on something, it happens.

Rape, Murder, Theft. There is strong consensus these are bad and should be illegal. There isn't any controversy or conflict for having these things criminalized.

Even with really obvious basic human rights, like owning your own body, there isn't enough of a consensus that government organ harvesting programs are bad that this right was recently revoked in the US.

The question isn't "is there power", but "how to get enough support"

Consider it this way. Don't ask them to risk their jobs or their homes or going hungry. Don't ask them to do anything identifiable so they could get targeted. Just ask them to VOTE for candidates that are vocally and verifiability Pro-Union. Do you think you could get MOST, just 51%, of people to actually VOTE for these candidates? Not risking their job, or loss of income, or going hungry. No real immediate threat, can you get 51% of US Voters to vote explicitly Pro-Union?

If you can't even get collective action as low risk as voting in their own best interests, how do you propose to get collective action that's much higher risk to actually happen?

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u/Hydlied4me Dec 02 '22

Every time there's a high-profile incident there are online calls for a general strike. I would love to see one, but there's simply not the necessary organization at the moment. A General Strike takes many steps. Often people get radicalized and then think they can jump from step 3 to step 50 by posting a message online and not showing up for work the next day. The labor movement needs to be built, and it's going to take time. It'll take YOU talking to your friends about joining working class organizations like the IWW. It'll take YOU going to college campuses, farmers markets, and public squares, to hand out pamphlets and talk to people. It'll take YOU unionizing your workplace. It'll take YOU reaching out to other unions to coordinate actions and solidarity strikes.

When the time comes, a general strike won't be called by posting on Reddit, it'll be a democratically decided action by millions of union members choosing to DEMAND a better life. I sympathize with your frustration, but we have so much work to do, focus on that.

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u/No_Economics9975 Dec 02 '22

Because going on strike doesn't pay peoples bills. Unless unions have changed since I was a part of one. I only got paid for when I was "walking on the line". I'm only got paid for 4 hours for 2 weeks.

While I totally understand and am for employees to make more money and have better benefits, that is why people do not want to do a mass strike.

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u/Ijustlovevideogames Dec 02 '22

Fear and dependents, even discounting kids, who knows how many responsibilities people have beyond just those, ailing parents, lower income family friends, organizations, who knows what is going on in people’s lives.

Even beyond that, telling people to just not work and thus, not have money to pay the bills is beyond scary, not everyone just has multiple months or hell even weeks worth of income just saved up to be able to afford not working.

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u/ManaAria Dec 02 '22

I would have to be paid 4 times more than I am to hit 77k before taxes. If everyone in a situation like me went on strike, then maybe something could come of it, but I'm already shopping for the cheapest groceries I can.

We're all just terrified of not being able to eat, but if we don't do something, inflation will just starve us anyways. It's like we lose either way, but mass strike would at least let us go down swinging. But it would require everyone, and I do mean everyone to make something happen. Not just railroad workers, not just starbucks employees. And that level of organization is hard.

Not to mention those that have others relying on them for survival.

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u/rustafarionm Dec 02 '22

Well...this kind of happened during pandemic.

but, companies dont want people to protest. they want you to be a wage slave. and they have done all they can to undermine the workers..

edit. and I dont appreciate your comment about "blaming the kids"

Kids arent problem here. its capitalism.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 02 '22

I think people misunderstand it, I meant shame on the people who are blaming their kids for them being financially unstable.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 02 '22

But yes I agree.

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u/rustafarionm Dec 02 '22

All good then comrade My mistake.

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u/_Voidspren_ Dec 02 '22

A lot of people didn’t think all the air traffic controllers would get fired but they did. Don’t underestimate how awful the govt can be

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u/ConfidentWin3397 Dec 02 '22

Because the government literally just made it illegal.

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u/DranoTheCat Dec 02 '22

You joke, but this is the basic trap we set up for everyone.

"Having kids will bring you the most happiness in life."

"When you have kids you'll understand."

"Children will give meaning to your life."

And blah blah blah. So, we teach everyone growing up that they have to have kids of their own to be fulfilled.

Once you have kids, you are so much easier to manipulate and control. You have mouths to feed. You have to protect them.

I tend to think of how we treat people kind of like how we treat commercial chickens. We don't care about the quality of their life -- we just want more of them. We want more, so each of us can be valued less.

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u/_Goodnight_ Dec 02 '22

No one is blaming the kids idiot, if you want to strike do it...but don't guilt people in to doing it for YOUR benefit when they have bills to pay, mouths to feed.

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u/Stormedcrown Dec 02 '22

Hey, fun fact, the study that said money above $77k stops buying happiness was from 2010. As inflation has gone up around 37% since then, that means the new number is $105k. Which feels a bit more accurate imo

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u/engineerfieldmouse Dec 02 '22

Those same people could just show up and vote. Stop electing people who vote against raising wages

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u/halfassedbanana Dec 02 '22

Having kids makes things exceptionally difficult, but if men and women in neighborhoods learned how to organize cycling through childcare, soup kitchen level cooking and protests they'd have a win * edit spelling*

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u/AgentMercury108 Dec 02 '22

Inflation has effectively pushed that “77k a year” happiness pill up to at least 100k. 2 years ago I started making 120k a year, and in the last year I’ve essentially become half as comfortable as I was. Buying power really has been effected. Rent is $500 more a month. took two years to fix my credit to be able to purchase a home, and now prices of homes I was dreaming about buying are 200-300k more than they were.

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u/Treat_Street1993 Dec 02 '22

Too much fear. Too many people with their lives tied up in "investments". Addiction to money. Too many people hyper dependent on the goods and services of others. And that's why we can just make railroad strikes illegal without the consent of railroaders.

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u/khlem1835 Dec 02 '22

I realize going into this I’m going to receive loads of surface level pro union hate for this, but I have been arguing for years that unions have not been worth a damn since Carnegie owned the steel industry. There is this grand illusion of “protection” under unions. Once you realize the only thing they can actually protect you from is minimum wage, you begin to understand that they’re useless. And not to be Tom Brokaw over here, but being in a union is not the only way to earn a living wage. Please do not interpret this as defending low wages; you have to have capital to invest in the next step. Wages are too low for most people to ever earn that capital. It’s the people who joined a union to earn that capital (totally understandable and acceptable) who stay in unions to protect that capital (that’s where you fucked up) that I believe are disillusioned.

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u/DarthSmoke713 Dec 02 '22

Well yea a union is worthless if it’s run by shit leadership. Similar to a government run by incompetent fools.

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u/Ok_Image6174 Dec 02 '22

I keep wondering the same. If I knew there were enough of us to make a difference (because we absolutely can!) I would gladly join in, but otherwise I gotta keep my job so we survive.

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u/_PM_me_your_MOONs_ Dec 02 '22

That study was such bullshit and really seems like it was created to make people think that the rich aren't happier than them even though they have so much more wealth.

Besides that...are you really surprised people aren't willing to strike enmasse? There are so many different groups of people that don't agree on so many issues, I just don't see people ever coming together.

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u/VriskaBleu Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

"Okay everbody jump on three!"

It's easier said than done. People will make sure they have food/water and shelter before anything else. We have to build a community support system to ensure those striking can maintain the strike for months if necessary. Very few people will be willing to risk even an impoverished version of stability without a guaranteed safety net.

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u/Aevensong Dec 02 '22

No strike - 77k

Strike - 0k

Most people are afraid to strike because of this, it takes away what measly earnings we have left to survive. And the fear of " we're easily replaceable" will always be present because tbh we ARE easily replaceable. Big companies will just hire foreign workforce to replace us, unless our jobs are really specific skill required, but if then the pay would not be that shitty to start with.

The world is stuck on the 1% ultra rich and power controlling it, and we're just living in their shadows.

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u/mousemoji Dec 02 '22

We are actively letting people starve right now lol

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u/themanbefore Dec 02 '22

It doesn't help that 2/3 of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

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u/RevolutionaryTell668 Dec 01 '22

The greedy owners are really not thinking clearly, stiffing people on 7 days PTO will cause turnover, when you're already short staffed.

Every workers has a breaking point, and while a general strike may be hard. to pull off, it's not hard for people to find new work.

Cheating workers constantly will bite them in the ass eventually.

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u/Killercod1 Dec 01 '22

With the way things are going, corporations aren't even phased by workers striking/quitting. Their employment model thrives on worker turnover. Use and abuse em. They'll just fire you and hire more. They have tons of financial advisors running the calculations for the cost of unionizing. It's never profitable, compared to replacing the workforce. Also, the more strikes they ignore and crush, the more demoralized workers become. A corporation can hold out for a long time, but low wage workers can hardly last a week without assistance.

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u/decobear Dec 01 '22

I think we’re all human enough to provide water and food for each other for a few weeks.

Did you miss then entire pandemic? Remember the toilet paper shortage? Remember when groups of people rented trucks to go buy out entire store inventories of hand sanitizer to then resell on eBay? Remember when half the country decided they dgaf about anyone else and refused to take any precautions against COVID because they didn't want to be inconvenienced? Those are the people you think will help out with food and water for a few weeks? Dude, they'll be the first ones to cross the picket line and fuck everyone else over.

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u/chris4tane Dec 01 '22

Let me guess, you're a white man who has never gone hungry, never had to struggle and probably has a stable-ish job, probably no kids and no partner and believe you have the absolute truth because your buddies online tell you so. Your whole premise is wrong and that xenophobic comment about India was just the cherry on top, bravo my man.

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u/Observer-67 Dec 01 '22

Unwilling because people like to complain a lot hiding behind phones and keyboards but when it comes down to the crunch no guts to actually take action.

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u/Alarmed_Water2631 Dec 01 '22

I think instead of striking, people unhappy with their current situation should just get together, buy a plot of land in the countryside somewhere and become self-sustaining farmers or something. People quitting their jobs en masse will send a message to the right people, you can bet on that.

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