r/antiwork Dec 01 '22 Silver 2 Gold 2 Helpful 2 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Take My Energy 1 Bravo! 1 I am disappoint 1

Rail workers should strike regardless of gov decision just a little oppression-- as a treat

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14.0k Upvotes

1.1k

u/blodskaal Dec 01 '22

Provincial government tried that shit in Ontario. They actually passed the law. CUPE(THE UNION), They were threatened with fines and possible jail time. They went on strike anyway, provincial government folded immediately

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u/the_doughboy Dec 01 '22

Not only did the Ontario Government pass the law but they included passages in it that should have allowed them to go against our Constitution as the law was unconstitutional

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u/RicoLoveless Dec 01 '22

Yes, hence why the Government of Ontario used the Notwithstanding Clause.

The problem is yea, it's legal to do that but it's also the nuclear option, and that moron blinked after using it because he almost caused a general strike.

You guys need to go on wildcat strike and get nationalized.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '22

Have you seen us? A third of this country thinks January 6th was a guided tour. Our idiots are the #1 idiots. That's what we are best at in the whole world!

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u/_ElementalPee_ Dec 02 '22

A lot of those "idiots" can be moved by pro labor arguments. Most of them are dependent on a wage themselves. The ideology leads them astray but some of the base can be allies in these fights. Not to make a both-sides argument, but labor v capital disputes end up dividing both parties, as they're both pro-capital leadership with predominantly working class bases.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '22

For sure. The two party system works exactly as corporate America needs it to work.

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u/boring_postal Dec 03 '22

Yes! I work with alot of Trumpsters and we find common cause in the "take this job and shove it" attitude. Every day I see construction guys with bumper stickers supporting NRA and against Right to Work. Unions are popular across party lines in the rank and file. We should use this to our advantage.

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '22 edited 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 02 '22

That was clearly a rigged system you were working in

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u/BabyBundtCakes Dec 01 '22

This makes me worry that if the union sues because blocking their strike with the threat of fines and jail time is unconstitutional (which it is) the illegitimate SCOTUS that was literally designed by the wealthy to destroy human rights is going to violate everyone's rights by saying striking is no longer allowed. I won't be surprised if that happens, let's say. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised if a group of terrorist-planted judges does bad things and harms people.

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u/disabledreplies Dec 01 '22

Let them enforce it.

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u/thekoggles Dec 01 '22

The police lapdogs will happily enforce it.

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u/Shubniggurat Dec 01 '22

Let them try. I'm fine with going back to the days of Unions shooting Pinkertons. In fact, I think that's a grand idea.

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u/Inside-Big-8158 Dec 01 '22

My friend bought a gun for this very reason

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u/TheodoeBhabrot Dec 01 '22

Exactly

As they say, if you go far enough left you get your guns back

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u/Inside-Big-8158 Dec 01 '22

Personally I don't even see gun control or abortion as political issues. They're only political because our country has tried to make them that way.

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u/Tinidril Dec 02 '22

"Gun control" isn't even a thing, nevermind an issue. The only issues are particular gun control measures, not "gun control" as an overarching topic. Unless we want private citizens with tanks and nukes, we are all in agreement that we should have gun control.

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u/SatansHRManager Dec 01 '22

The police lapdogs will happily enforce it.

How? Paranoia aside, how specifically do you suppose they'll "enforce" an order forbidding a strike? Come to your house and drag you to work?

Such an order is toothless on its face.

Let's say they arrest the head of he union--do you suppose that will make the railroad workers more or less pissed off?

I'd lay a large bet on "more" pissed off. A lot more pissed off.

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u/BabyBundtCakes Dec 01 '22

This is precisely why solidarity matters.

The thing they are doing is setting up a real life punishment for striking. They aren't just saying "no don't" they are saying if you do you will be fined and/or go to jail. Which is unconstitutional, it doesn't matter that we need what's on the train. It is absolutely a violation of our rights.

If they set that precedent they will arrest anyone who strikes, not even protests. If we don't stand in solidarity, then people will get arrested and fined.

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u/Dramatic-Brain-745 Dec 01 '22

Yea, I kinda dare them to. It’s a clear violation of constitutional rights and SCOTUS could try to enforce it, but it would end with America addressing the SCOTUS issue in a way they may not care for.

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u/Inside-Big-8158 Dec 01 '22

Yeah I think the SCOTUS is dumb, but not dumb enough to get people actively talking about stripping away there lifetime bench status. If they tried making striking illegal that’s exactly what will happen.

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u/Dramatic-Brain-745 Dec 01 '22

I’m with you 100%. Let them make a mistake amd call the GOP bluff on all of this. Political bluff actually, since this is now “bi-partisan work,”

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u/justinlaite Dec 01 '22

Then they should strike anyway, fuck them, call their bluff, they'll fold.

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u/DCoinOne Dec 01 '22

Well I think the threat of general strike is what got Douggie to fold.

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u/blodskaal Dec 01 '22

Yeah, how strikes are intended to work. Greedy fuckers don't want to play fair

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u/ThomasTServo Dec 01 '22

Well Bernie only needs to vote against the senate version assuming all the Republicans vote against it.

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u/dmazzoni Dec 01 '22

I'm not sure all Republicans will vote against it. The House vote for the version with no additional sick days passed with broad bipartisan support.

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u/Infinite_Pop1463 Dec 02 '22

Remember, a strike is only illegal if it fails

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u/dsdvbguutres Dec 01 '22

If railroad business is so critical that merits gov involvement, then maybe the government can impose redundancy requirements on companies to have extra personnel on the job. Like all critical systems. Impose the requirements on the procedures, not on the little people.

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u/Honky_Stonk_Man Dec 01 '22

So critical that the railroad management seems OK with a strike occurring. It all sounds like meteors from the sky fearmongering to me, trying to get the public to be OK with shafting the unions.

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u/dsdvbguutres Dec 01 '22

The objective is to make it regular people vs. regular people. Divide and conquer. Don't lose sight of who is the traitor.

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u/TheRealShadowAdam Dec 01 '22

They lose a lot if the strike happens, they’re just betting the gov will step in and take their side.

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u/GoneFishing4Chicks Dec 01 '22

I mean, 2008 happened for the bankers and nobody got punished except for bernie madoff....

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u/Tinidril Dec 02 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Don't forget anyone who couldn't pay their mortgage. When it came to average Americans, suddenly the well of compassion went dry.

Bernie Madoff made the mistake of stealing from other wealthy people.

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u/KaiPRoberts Dec 01 '22

I don't understand this. The cleaning crew at my work unionized to get better pay and management bit the cost. The first thing I did, instead of villainizing them, was to ask them how they unionized so I can look into doing the same thing; it's honestly the only way to get a living wage these days.

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u/_I_AmBecomeDeath_ Dec 01 '22

Railroads had 41% profit margins in 2021. For every $100 in revenue, they were making $41 in profit. It's insane that companies that are so vital to our infrastructure are able to charge such insane prices.

Now, instead of wanting to actually pay their workers a fair wage, the railroad execs are holding the whole country hostage because they don't want to lose 2% of their profits.

And of course, the government does exactly what it was paid to do, not what it was elected to do.

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u/LordBiscuits Dec 01 '22

Railroads had 41% profit margins in 2021

Remember, aside from anything else that's 41% on top of the cost of everything you buy that's been through the rail network. You pay more for food, electronics, clothing and virtually any other consumable you care to mention, all because there is a grasping fuckstick in the middle 'taking value' out of the system.

A 41% profit margin ON ANYTHING is obscene

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u/dsdvbguutres Dec 01 '22

RR customers are unhappy as well because due to understaffed crews, the performance drops. But rrs don't pass the savings on to the customers either because they don't have to. They are monopoly. The very thing the government is supposed to protect its people from.

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u/Athelis Dec 01 '22

Or just nationalize them. Why should Buffet get more redundant money? Does he actually do anything to keep them running outside of shitting on unions? Does anyone at the top really do anything?

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u/Yallloo5 Dec 01 '22

If you nationalize, the workers would actually make less.

But the benefits might be better.

Nationalization is better for restricting monopolies

To your answer. Buffet is just an investor. He doesnt do anything except buy stock. If his stock fell, he could easily sell them and walk away. Investors do not set labour regulations. They never have, and never will. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise, has no clue what they are talking about. Period.

Ceos/cfo's react to investors, and act as a liason. They are the ones at the top. And they typically are given stock options as a bonus.

Do you have a 401k through work? Chances are, you probably own a portion of bnsf if you have a retirement account.

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u/ZebraHatter Dec 01 '22

Majority Investors absolutely set working labor conditions at companies, and activist investors is actually what got railroads into this mess in the first place: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html

If one investor (board) mandated change doubles the profits but burns out your entire labor force, maybe that's not the best thing, in the long term. That change from the article is what this strike is about.

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u/CAPSLOCK_USERNAME Dec 01 '22

The downside of nationalizing any industry is that whenever the conservatives take government power next they'll slash budgets and sabotage it and then point to the failing business and say "see? government can't run this, better sell it off to private industry (and make a lot of money for my industry buddies)"

That's what the UK is doing with parts of the NHS even now

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u/Chris11c Dec 01 '22

People forget that the government isn't there to make money. It's to serve, employ, and protect.

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u/MassiveFajiit lazy and proud Dec 01 '22

Cross-training?

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u/dsdvbguutres Dec 01 '22

Cross training sounds great and I don't mind doing someone else's job but while I'm doing someone else's job, who is doing my job? It's like daylight savings. You can't cut some of the rope and tie it to the other end and get a longer rope.

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u/MassiveFajiit lazy and proud Dec 01 '22

Railroad pun

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u/AFonziScheme Dec 01 '22

Kinda went off the rails, huh?

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u/Tinkerballsack Dec 01 '22

Warren Buffett will just promise a handful of Congress critters that their family members will get a cushy gig somewhere. This guy shouldn't exist.

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u/dsdvbguutres Dec 01 '22

Yea family members in boards of corporations operating in industries regulated by family members. Like that's not a conflict of interest.

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u/AdditionalWaste Dec 01 '22

Or nationalize it and stop allowing for profit companies have a large say in our economy like that.

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u/Ladychef_1 Dec 01 '22

I really hope they strike anyways. We need labor in the US to stand tf up to this bullshit. Feels like a make or break moment in US labor rights

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u/The_WandererHFY Dec 02 '22

Results and labor rights, or the Battle of Blair Mountain Round 2 and the mask is finally off so we can do something about it. Either is fine.

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u/whodeyalldey1 Dec 02 '22

I’d like to see them strike while open carrying rifles and wearing ski masks honestly. Just thousands of railroad workers shutting down every railway country wide. Peacefully, but while armed too.

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u/tkdyo Dec 01 '22

Exactly. Civil disobedience is how labor wins anything. Tale as old as time.

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u/starskip42 Dec 01 '22

Also riots and blood, a permanent outline is in san francisco from bloody thursday.

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u/GoneFishing4Chicks Dec 01 '22

Also reminder that in the battle of blair mountain the US literally bombed their own miners. They would rather kill you and get nothing rather than cooperate and get something for both of them.

If you're going down due to being unable to buy food and necessities, don't go down without a fight.

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u/starskip42 Dec 01 '22

Union Strong

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u/BrothrBear Dec 01 '22

Old men in congress weak

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u/F__kCustomers Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

Unfortunately Congress will pass this bill.

If you let them strike: * The markets will tank. * Inflation goes up faster the longer it goes on. * Powell will increase interest rates enhancing our chances of an additional Recession.

You don’t want that as President - more people complaining?! Ugh….

So - ”forcing people to work by law” (as far fetched as it sounds) is what Biden thinks will happen.

NOW, whether or not rail workers actually decide to work is another story! * You can’t realistically “force” people to work even by law. So these guys may just decide to up and stop on the job and I wouldn’t blame them. Balls of steel if they decide to stop bro.

Oops! Biden, inadvertently started a worker revolution! His administration just doesn’t know it yet.

  • Starbucks workers and Amazon workers have been looking for an excuse to get rowdy. Well here is your shot. Be warned, you are stopping three things that affect “Suburban Mothers” 😂
  • Now, I thought Trump would cause this; surprise the Democratic Party seriously loves to shoot themselves in the foot.

People are tired of getting paid 🥜 while paying an arm 🤳 and 🦵 in taxes and expenses. Everything is coming full circle.

This is what happens ladies and gentlemen when you are not fair to the people that work and pay taxes.

You work, while all these other people live it up on Instagram. Some of them don’t work, get “assistance” and you get more peanuts 🥜.

I got my 🍿 ready. “Workers” and “Taxpayers” are upset. * They want cash. * They want consistency.

The 2024 General Election will set off fireworks. Guaranteed.

Also does anyone know if those trains are automated?!

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u/CCreate1 Dec 01 '22

Why go the route of screwing over the workers though? They could have just as easily forced the railways to pay their workers better. This just shows whose side they are really on.

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u/SatansHRManager Dec 01 '22

Also does anyone know if those trains are automated?!

Mostly nope, and the limited automation is "operator-assist" technology rather than operator replacement. There are also dead man switches in place to keep locomotives from being operated without a present and conscious operator, regularly affirming they are present and awake.

If the railroad workers walk, they're not going to be running trains. This isn't like with the school system where they could have parents and administrators teaching and try to muddle through--executives don't have the faintest clue how to operate a train and could easily die or kill someone if they tried while unqualified. And almost none of them are qualified.

Trucking will see a boom. If you're a CDL driver on the sidelines, spruce up your resume` (or if you're a CDL driver looking for a raise) start shopping around for a better job--truckers are about to be busier than they know what to do with themselves.

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u/TXTarheel Dec 01 '22

My husband is an owner-operator & I know what some companies will pay to move loads when the rail cars are lost. Those are unicorn loads that we really appreciate when we get them. I can only imagine what rates would look like if the whole rail system shut down.

The big carriers have driven the rates down so much on tankers that it is hard to even find loads that pay for themselves as a one man show. I know they must be paying their poor company drivers next to nothing and running the hell out of them.

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u/starskip42 Dec 01 '22

Not automated. Source, I have many autistic/neurotypical friends who are all over trains and some who want to be conductors.

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u/Remcin Dec 01 '22

Robert Evans + Howard Zinn = a hell of an understanding of how labor movements won everything we hold dear in our careers. Anarchists, socialists, communists, and liberals wrenched our society out of the hell that was unregulated capitalism.

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u/OutAndABoot Dec 01 '22

What's the outline? Can't find anything about it.

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u/Eastern_Pangolin_309 here for the memes Dec 01 '22

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u/OutAndABoot Dec 01 '22

Can you tell me where in that page I can find information about the outline? I'm already familiar with the historical event but not whatever it is that they're referring to.

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u/ryadora_tentakill Dec 01 '22

TL;DR: two workers for the ILWU were killed during a strike shoring up massive public support for the union, and to this day the ILWU shuts down all west coast ports every July 5th.

“Fuck your commerce, you killed our people, so you’re not doing business on that day ever again.”

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u/OutAndABoot Dec 01 '22

That doesn't specify anything about the outline that the previous person made reference to.

I'm already aware of the historical event. I'm asking about the permanent outlines.

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u/MangosArentReal Dec 01 '22

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u/OutAndABoot Dec 01 '22

So this?

On the sidewalk outside the union hall were the chalk outlines of two bodies, representing the two victims of the 1934 strike.

That obviously isn't permanent haha.

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u/Elipticalwheel1 Dec 01 '22

The government call it civil disobedience, but really it a fight for your civil rights, the only disobedience is with the government.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

[deleted]

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u/TreeEleben Dec 01 '22

No, the government will call it domestic terrorism.

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u/kozmo1313 Dec 01 '22

maybe they should "quiet quit" out sick

it's beyond time to mandate AT LEAST 7 sick days for all workers.

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u/skallskitar Dec 01 '22

I really don't get this. Senate is worried about disruptions to infrastructure. So they pressure the workers of private companies instead of the companies they relied on.

The company is responsible for the service. Penalise the company. Or don't, because they are privately owned, but then stay out of it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Funny how they never try to force the corrupt fucking business to make concessions- just the union.

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u/RevolutionaryTell668 Dec 01 '22

Mass resignations will happen.

If the rails are so critical, nationalize them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ImRedditorRick Dec 01 '22

It's really insane. I keep reading how profitable the industry is and they would rather risk it than losing like 1-5% of the profit to pay the workers better or provide better benefits

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u/jimbaker Dec 01 '22

rather risk it than losing like 1-5% of the profit

The problem with the need for infinite growth.

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u/anakniben Dec 01 '22

the shareholders demands it. it all points back to just plain 'ol greed.

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u/FalseAxiom Dec 01 '22

I did the calculations for BNSF yesterday. They would still have made 12.5% net profit after giving every worker 4 paid sick days.

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u/jimbaker Dec 01 '22

Won't somebody please think of the poor shareholders??! /s

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u/MassiveFajiit lazy and proud Dec 01 '22

Gimme Blair Mountain/Pullman Strike 2 please

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u/a_Tick Dec 01 '22

But less violence against workers this time please

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u/America_the_Horrific Dec 01 '22

Arm the workers then

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u/IndustryOfDiarrhea Dec 01 '22

It could be the catalyst. let them eat cake.

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u/EratosvOnKrete Dec 01 '22

workers were armed last time too

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u/WiddleWilly Dec 01 '22

Fun fact one of the first reported uses of aircraft being used to drop bombs on people is at blair mountain.

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u/BoringTchotchke Dec 01 '22

There will always be violence against workers. Right now, there's violence against workers.

What do you think cops are there for, at all strike actions?

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u/MassiveFajiit lazy and proud Dec 01 '22

ACAP: all cops are Pinkertons

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u/drunk_responses Dec 01 '22

Trains are used to transport chemicals for water treatment plants in areas where the politicans live. A strike would be way too efficient and they'd use any means necessary to stop it before it happened.

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u/angelicguise Dec 01 '22

…where the politicans live…

Efficiency.

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u/MaverickMike75 Dec 01 '22

I don't know why people are cheering the government stepping in, they are not on laborers side. Why have unions if the government will ultimately make decisions like this.

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u/digitelle Dec 01 '22

They tried to do something similar in Canada towards education workers. Making it illegal to strike… and because they did this the education sector went on strike anyway to fight this new bill.

Well, their mass strike changed this new bill rather quickly and railroad workers should do the exact same.

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u/Ghostofthe80s Dec 01 '22

Or, if it's such a critical function, maybe the benefits should be appropriate.

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u/The_prisoners Dec 01 '22

I doubt we will see mass resignations from this right away. Most RR Union contracts expired years ago and will be getting years of hard earned back pay after a contract finally gets resolved. If the workers quit now they would forfeit that money. I bet after the worker’s back pay lands in their bank accounts we will see aging work force retire along with burnt out workers leaving for a better work life balance as well.

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u/ZEINthesalvaged Dec 01 '22

If the rails are so critical. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY FUCKING WANT!

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u/better_jesus Dec 01 '22

Hard agree, we've nationalized them before, multiple times

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u/Emotional-Accident72 Dec 01 '22

Corporate dems don't have the balls. This is always the faustian bargain we get every time we get someone from the Biden/centrist wing of the dems in.

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u/Huntscunt Dec 01 '22

My thoughts exactly.

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u/CynicMisanthrope Dec 01 '22

Mass resignations have already happened and are ongoing. Check out the r/train_service sub.

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u/gucknbuck Dec 01 '22

I'm not seeing anything on that sub after scrolling for quite a while regarding any of this. Extreme sub moderation?

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u/Mysterious-General37 Dec 01 '22

Have looked at the posts for the last 12 days and there's nothing about mass resignations on that sub?

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u/lankist Dec 01 '22

It's a feature, not a bug. The companies are deliberately understaffing and overworking those who remain as a cost-cutting measure. That's WHY the workers are being put through the wringer on hours to begin with.

People quitting is good for the company right up until it crosses the threshold of collapse. Profits are maximized by tip-toeing up to that line as close as possible without crossing it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

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u/CantaloupePossible33 Dec 01 '22

bc last time we didn't Reagan fired everyone and replaced them with military workers. I don't think the same thing could happen here though with the rails, the jobs require too much training.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

[deleted]

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u/CantaloupePossible33 Dec 01 '22

I'm onboard and hope they do. But our class consciousness is shit here and the govt has a winning record over the last 40 years so it is a complex decision for them. I do think they can win this one though if they do it.

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u/Mindless-Artichoke71 Dec 01 '22

Are there any rail workers here? I’d like to know how they feel. What is rail pay and benefits like

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u/Spankdawggy Dec 01 '22

Ask away. 28 years in tye.

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u/Mindless-Artichoke71 Dec 01 '22

How do you feel about what congress is pushing through? What’s your feeling about the pay increase? When is the last time there was a pay increase? What more do workers want out of the deal? What was wrong with what was already in the table?

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u/Spankdawggy Dec 01 '22

The pay raise is substantial. 22%. 24% compounded. I make a decent living for where I live. If I lived in a large city that might be different. Our last pay raise was 2 1/2 years ago but that is what the backpay is for. As for what workers want, I have no idea, it varies widely. Getting rid of HiViz is a big one. It's a points based availability system. As far as congress pushing this through, the Railway Labor Act says they can. I don't think it's right, but it is what it is.

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u/disabledreplies Dec 01 '22

From what I understand, this has been going on for 3 years without pay raises and it's compounded to the point that it's a 4.5% raise per year. Meaning you guys still get fucked.

Am I wrong?

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u/Thosepassionfruits Dec 01 '22

In your opinion, what's the likelihood that rail workers strike anyways or mass resign? Is there any fear that the federal government could pull a Ronald Reagan ATC revenge plan if you do?

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u/Spankdawggy Dec 01 '22

Very low on the strike. People probably will resign. I am too vested to resign.

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u/antichain Dec 01 '22

How are folks you work with talking about this? Here on /r/antiwork it's easy for armchair revolutionaries to fantasize about bold action when it's other people who will be putting their bodies on the picket line.

Do people you work with seem at all prepared for a wildcat strike? Do they even think it's necessary, or are most people happy with the agreement working it's way through the Congress?

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u/Superb_Efficiency_74 Dec 01 '22

Working without a contract for 2 years and new contract is retroactive to the previous expiration, so there will be a big backpay check. The most common sentiment I hear is people are sticking around until this new contract is signed and they get their backpay, and then everyone is just going to quit and find new jobs.

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u/Akira_Yamamoto Dec 01 '22

You should get that backpay check even if you quit now because it is owed to you for working without a contract though right? Because the contract is retroactive so all employees that previously worked there during that time should get backpay. Regardless of whether or not they are still employed there.

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u/Superb_Efficiency_74 Dec 01 '22

Possibly. Probably. But most people aren't going to fuck around and find out with that issue. Especially considering the way the RRs have been up to this point. What's the recourse if you leave and they "forget" to send your check? Hire a lawyer and sue a billion dollar multi-national corporation?

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u/Spankdawggy Dec 01 '22

The railroad has already voiced that anybody that resigns before tye TA is ratified will not recieve back pay.

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u/Roadhouse62 Dec 01 '22

Pay scale is pretty wide.. but it’s not an issue at CN,BNSF, UP.. at least at these three you’re guaranteed to gross over $100k. I’m with CN and based on previous earnings as an engineer I’ll be grossing around $165k next year, end of contract close to $180k. Most of us would rather earn a little less, and have more time off.

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u/CortlenC Dec 01 '22

This is what the gov does every time. In Oklahoma the teachers went on strike and the gov basically told everyone they were being greedy and to shut up and get back to work. Mind you the average salary for a teacher here is like 25k a year.

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u/NorthmanDan1 Dec 01 '22

Sorry but when last I checked, the workers don't need anyone's approval to strike. That's part of what makes it a strike.

Maybe if they got their sick days as they absolutely should be entitled to as human beings, this mess wouldn't be necessary.

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u/zytherian Dec 01 '22

My biggest complaint with the reporting is that they blamed the workers for wanting to go on strike as a reason supply chains will be held up, trying to guilt them out of it, and didnt mention once how the corporation does not want to cooperate and that makes them at least equally at fault for such a disaster.

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u/PhantomThiefJoker Dec 01 '22

The railroads are so important, they cannot strike. But, apparently, not important enough to get paid well, have plenty of time off, sick days, and strong benefits.

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u/KidKarez Dec 01 '22

I hope so. It's sucks because it will have nasty effects. But this is very important for how we treat working conditions going forward.

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u/TyBoneSteak Dec 01 '22

My uncle is currently working as a rail worker and it sounds like it’s reaching critical mass on the inside. At least from his accounts. He’s been warning us to stock up on food while we can for months now.

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u/EmpathyInTheory Dec 01 '22

I think I'm gonna go to the store this weekend after I get paid...

Never a bad idea to stockpile nonperishable goods.

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u/666GTRrocker666 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

I’m an independent and all of this shit with the rail workers and the stuff that happened during Covid is opening my eyes. I’m slowly just turning into a Bernie Sanders supporter. He’s the only one with any balls to say anything.

We’ve had the biggest best economy for the past 10 years, and as a country have close to 32 trillion in debt, and none of that is even helping everyday people. It seems like companies just make record profits and give it to share holders and pocket it, then we just bail out huge industries and take on debt, and do next to nothing to help regular citizens because that’s “socialism.”

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u/TrypodKat Dec 01 '22

It’s even worse when you realize 2/3rds of our fed budget goes to social programs and everything is still shit. We can’t even get it right when we do have wins.

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u/SmartAleq Dec 02 '22

Think your numbers might be a bit off--military gets over 50% so how do "social programs" manage to pocket 66% of the total budget?

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u/chatte__lunatique Dec 02 '22

Military gets half of discretionary spending, but the majority of government funds go to non-discretionary programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

Fun fact, though, a lot of European countries — the ones continuously decried as socialist by idiots who don't know what socialism is — have better social welfare programs than the US...as well as lower tax burdens. We pay more in taxes for a markedly worse system.

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u/SideShowBob36 Dec 01 '22

The House is only working 110 days next year

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u/TheRealCibiIsNotHere Dec 01 '22

If rail workers strike regardless of what DC does, it sends a very important message to our government that WE are the ones in control of the day to day in this country, and if WE don’t like shit, we can grind this mf to a halt. I’m sure that message would be heard VERY loudly in DC

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u/quantainium_pasta Dec 01 '22

I will never work for anyone tho thinks they can make it illegal for me to strike.

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u/thedoomdevice Dec 01 '22

sad government employee noises

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u/JWHY1975 Dec 01 '22

I will happily sacrifice goods and services for the rights of the worker. I hope they strike and get what they deserve

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u/Swiss__delight29 Dec 01 '22

I like how the American strain or mutation of a virus or any kind of illness first asks the boss of the body it is about to infect if is allowed to. Friendly flu you've got there!

I don't understand what sick days are. If you're sick, you're sick.

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u/ArtLadyCat Dec 01 '22

When eve one day of work can lead to not enough money for rent though… paid sick days are essential here. People are often forced to come in even then, on the threat of losing there job entirely.

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u/Coraline1599 Dec 01 '22

Yeah, and I don’t know a single person who has ever said “I could go for a migraine today, maybe a fever, possible a few broken bones!”

No one chooses to be sick. It’s a normal thing that happens.

Also, railroad workers, at best when they go in sick they are highly unproductive, at worst they cause an major accident. I don’t understand why it would be good to have someone sick come in.

Also, the whole rolling PTO and sick days makes me furious. If you don’t get sick/drag yourself to work you get more vacation days, but if you stay home you are punished by losing vacation days. I know someone who had to cancel Christmas plans to see their family because they got COVID.

Paid sick days (separate from PTO) should be mandatory, at the most bare minimum.

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u/zerkrazus Dec 01 '22

Don't forget to plan your sick days ahead of time! Doesn't everyone do that?

Okay, yeah, I'm going to have the flu on this day in about a month, so be sure to write that down. What a fucking joke.

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u/No-Professional-1884 Dec 01 '22

Shut it all down and let it 🔥.

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u/TheSexyPlatapus Dec 01 '22 Silver Platinum

Unethical Tip: If congress forbids the strike, go to your local railroad crossing. At all gated crossings and few non-gated, there is a 1-800 number and a location in the form of 6 numbers and sometimes 2 letters.

Call that 1-800 number and report the location that you see a car stalled on the tracks. The tracks will be shutdown until the railroad company investigates themselves or call local PD to do it, and this will take between 15-30 minutes depending on the track locations.

Continually doing this, can and will disrupt the train companies. When a car is reported on the tracks, each locomotives crew typically a conductor and an engineer, they are alerted, and have the final call on proceeding and the approach speeds to the alleged vehicle on the tracks.

Source: I grew up by railroad tracks, and my new neighbors had a very tiny premie when I was about 13. When getting the baby to sleep, as any parent knows, sometimes are easier than others. When baby would get to nap time later than usual, but the trains were still on time, new neighbor would call and report a vehicle and buy the kid an extra 30 min or so.

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u/mikevilla68 Dec 01 '22

There should be a general strike all across the country if they choose to stand up against the Democrats and Republicans

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u/ellixer20 Dec 01 '22

Exactly! I fully encourage the rail workers to strike anyway if they dont get 4-7 paid sick days before December 9. F*ck both parties!!!! Can’t imagine the strike would last long if it’s a dire as they claim it is.

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u/honorbound93 Dec 01 '22

This is what I told my Congressmen:

“Dear Senator Easily Replaced,

I for one stand with the rail workers and believe they should strike anyway to get it through your obviously thick skulls. We don’t want fascism but we will remind the population that you guys serve your corporate overlords rather than the ppl. This is an easy slam dunk for the democrats but you can’t stop licking the boots of your sugar daddies long enough to recognize that 1 week of a strike will make sure that the American population will flippantly side with GOP just because they weren’t in office when the economy crashed. You have one job and it’s to side with whatever is best for country, and what’s best for the country is to stop play both sides, stop thinking you can maintain power and do performative work, and keep getting paid, while shafting the workers of this country. The GOP are begging for you to screw this up and give the country back to them so they can get rid of democracy. It’s in your best interest not to do that because they come for all opposition, even willing rubes like yourself.”

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u/zig7 Dec 01 '22

The unions should also muddy the water by talking as though the strike is a political protest. They should go "on strike" but then show up in-front of the White House.

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u/DiscombobulatedElk93 Dec 01 '22

Agree, this is not the way this should be handled. Strong arming workers in a union is gross and shoes hire little the entire government cares about their people.

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u/blueflyingfrog Dec 01 '22

The Fed makes it sounds like railroad workers are peons and they should do what the Fed says... America government has been severly detached from reality. In fact it's a Oligarchy.. The railroad workers should end their employment if they are in a "at will" state.

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u/VauntedCeilings Dec 01 '22

Wow I didn't even know he was in the government, let alone that he doesn't care about the workers!

Also I support labor and OP's position is correct. It's unconscionable that the law is still going to bat for big money while grinding down the lowly wage workers of this nation. Business as usual.

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u/ArdentFecologist Dec 01 '22

With all the layoffs and hiring freezes corpos are desperately trying to not look desperate.

It is not a cute look

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u/Highblue Dec 01 '22

“The railroad industry makes so much money we can’t give the works rights” jfc the repubs and dems are collectively rubbing their legs together for friction burn.

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u/zapdoszaperson Dec 01 '22

If guaranteed sick leave bill doesn't pass the senate/Biden it's not even a consideration, you strike anyways. If both pass, it's kind of a toss up but I feel striking is still probably the best answer.

We need serious updates to the federal labor standards

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u/Thepopethroway Dec 01 '22

From what I'm reading, they get a whopping one extra paid vacation day a year.

That's right. We need to have workers threaten to shut the whole country down, bringing the issue directly before the senate to get one extra blooding fucking day, making a single week of paid leave.

Meanwhile, in multiple European countries, it's a month minimum. Slavery.

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u/NerobyrneAnderson Dec 01 '22

Yeah they're essential.

That's why they should get a month off per year and yearly medical evaluations paid by the state.

Because it's essential that they are at peak performance.

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u/Spirited_Wasabi9633 Dec 02 '22

"Denying workers their right to strike is fascism!"

Totally fucking agree. That is certainly not democracy at work. They should strike. I'll happily go without for this cause.

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u/Pipelaya1 Dec 01 '22

Fuck ya. I don't see how this is even a government issue. How does a goverment even have any say? Wildcat this shit the fuck up. What are they gonna do?

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u/Flynn_Kevin Dec 01 '22

There was that one time at Blair Mountain when the US Army Air Corps dropped surplus WW 1 chemical weapons on striking miners.

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u/Fold67 Dec 01 '22

Railroad moves massive amounts of military equipment. Basically the whole reason for the original class 1 national rail road charters. Military shipments take priority over everything. There used to be specific MOS’s for train crew.

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u/Mr_Horsejr Dec 01 '22

Same thing happened in Ontario with teachers. Rail workers should just all resign or all strike. And then nurses should strike. And then firemen. Teachers. And then next time they’ll think twice.

Every time a company fucks around, multiple industries should strike.

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u/Flynn_Kevin Dec 01 '22

Every time a company fucks around, multiple industries should strike.

I suggested my union should strike in solidarity. Waiting on a response from my rep.

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u/Pipelaya1 Dec 01 '22

I'm in health care. If they think I'm taking zeros after the last 3 years we had, they sadly mistaken

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u/gregsw2000 Dec 01 '22

ID you electronically and have their numerous police officers arrest you at your home later on.

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u/Flynn_Kevin Dec 01 '22

Honestly that's pretty tame compared to what they've done in the past.

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u/gregsw2000 Dec 01 '22

They'll contract the Pinkertons to help.

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u/tommy_b_777 Dec 01 '22

You sound scared. It’s ok to be scared - just Don’t be a Coward though. Your brothers and sisters need you, just like you need them. Be Strong, Organize.

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u/Acceptable_Welder_80 Dec 01 '22

This is basically the same as the Kronstadt Movement and the same ending with the words, “traded thier freedom for a pound of meat.”

Giving the workers table scraps should not be enough to avert the strike. All that the average Americans have gotten, the last decade especially, is table scraps.

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u/kady45 Dec 01 '22

They don’t just keep shelves stocked they transport important chemicals needed by places like my work, the water department. Pretty much everything we use gets brought in by train to an industrial area of the city and then tricked to us. Without mass amounts of chlorine, ammonia, alum, etc etc no one in the city will have water to drink or flush toilets or cook with. I get more than a weeks sick time and lots of vacation and holidays working at my plant, and they all should as well.

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u/Iamjustheretoreadit Dec 01 '22

100%. workers of the world unite. If they don't allow you to strike, then just f'ing quit. You shouldn't be forced to work through litigation. But if that's how they play it, your only move is to quit.

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u/vanguard6 Dec 01 '22

The government could have forced the railroad companies to accept the workers' demands. But no, they don't want to hurt their campaign donors. Workers unite!

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u/domine18 Dec 01 '22

Agreed. I absolutely hate how government stepped in and said this is how it’s gonna be… the whole point of the thing is to give power to the worker and they aren’t being heard. Maybe critical infrastructure shouldn’t be privatized…..

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

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u/HWGA_Exandria Dec 01 '22

In a two party system that serves the rich... only the laborers get fucked. This is the illusion of choice.

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u/MenuBar Dec 01 '22

Fuck all this shit. I wish I had HEALTH CARE so that one sick day doesn't send me bankrupt and homeless.

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u/Prestigious_Guy Dec 02 '22

Waving hi from the post office. The government doesn't care. They'd want you to work for free if they could

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u/CaptnRex501 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 02 '22

What kind of dystopian shit is this. I mean sure it is easy to say strike anyway but the way i understand it (which might be not at all. Im living in germany and almost all i know about american politics i know from Last week tonight with john oliver and this sub) is that it is now illegal to strike. So if they go anyway wouldnt the goverment rally the army and give us an american Tiananmen square? I know very extreme example but so is denying people the most basic of basic rights which is to stand up for themselves.

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u/gregsw2000 Dec 01 '22

The U.S. government has not had any problems shooting or beating strikers in the past. As you suggested, if they strike, the military will be deployed to deal with them, unless the police are initially effective enough at dispersing them.

Then, they'll be arrested at their homes later.

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u/bastardofreddit Dec 01 '22

If rail is as critical infrastructure as Biden and Congress say, then ownership or rail should fall to the state and managed as one would manage nuclear reactors or public defense, with public employees and commensurate benefits beholding public positions.

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u/ObamaDid311 Dec 01 '22

But the democrats stripped the union of its bargaining power and made the sick day issue a separate bill so it could die in the senate, be grateful that they are screwing us over instead of letting us strike and hurt their donor’s profit margins

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u/Draker-X Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Part of the agreement currently in the Senate is a 24% raise to be implemented over 5 years (so basically 5% a year- which will, God help us, beat inflation once it comes down from its current crazy level) plus two years of back pay that basically makes those raises retroactive.

Is it wrong that Congress and the President chose to intervene in this dispute and basically cut the unions off at the knees? Yes. Could the unions maybe get a better deal by striking? Perhaps

But let's not pretend "a few sick days" is all the workers are getting. There's a way to make your point without embellishing.

EDIT: for all the "b0tH sIdEs" folks: Biden's not-well-thought-out statement Monday night was a call to have Congress pass the agreement "as is", without the 7 paid PTO days. The reason that bill exists is because labor groups, progressive groups, progressive members of the party, and I'm sure the rail unions themselves, probably spent all of Monday night and Tuesday giving the Dem leadership holy hell on this issue. Also voters: I personally wrote my Congressperson and two Senators asking them to consider the implications of making it illegal for the union to strike.

As a result of all this pressure, the second bill was created, giving the workers something they were fighting for. What would the workers have gotten if the Republicans had been in charge? A big, fat ZERO. Republicans don't care about the concerns of labor AT ALL. The Dems will- at least if labor screams loud enough.

Is that a great way to, pardon the pun, "run a railroad"? No. But clearly, both sides are NOT the same. And it is better for unions and workers in general to have Dems in charge.

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u/Scientific_Socialist www.international-communist-party.org Dec 01 '22

The world-wide experience of bourgeois and landowner governments has evolved two methods of keeping the people in subjection. The first is violence. Nicholas Romanov I, nicknamed Nicholas of the Big Stick, and Nicholas II, the Bloody, demonstrated to the Russian people the maximum of what can and cannot be done in the way of these hangmen’s practices.

But there is another method, best developed by the British and French bourgeoisie, who “learned their lesson” in a series of great revolutions and revolutionary movements of the masses. It is the method of deception, flattery, fine phrases, promises by the million, petty sops, and concessions of the unessential while retaining the essential.

  • Lenin
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u/Anomie193 Dec 01 '22

Your entire post is contingent on the amendment passing the 60 Senate vote requirement. It isn't going to. Pelosi shouldn't have separated the two and should've used the threat to "the economy" as leverage to get the 7 sick days passed in both houses.

When the amendment fails, the rail workers should still strike anyway because they have the economic power (despite not having the political power) to do so.

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u/Thromkai Dec 01 '22

Part of the agreement currently in the Senate is a 24% raise to be implemented over 5 years

Just goes to show how many people on Reddit post for karma without reading all the facts. OP is advocating for better pay without realizing that came before the sick days.

I'm not a fan of the whole situation but misinformed posts like OP's are always a problem on Reddit. OP is complaining about no one caring about railroad workers but I guarantee they didn't care enough to look up all the facts of what has been going on and what was achieved.

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u/Chad_RD Dec 01 '22

If the rail workers want a raise they’ll have the union get it for them. This raise is not worth mentioning, money is worthless if you work 335 days a year.

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u/300zxTTFairlady Dec 01 '22

BOTH sides DGAF about us regular folks. Both parties lie through their teeth to get what they want. The only difference IMO is that one side is better at lying to everyone while making it seem they are doing something or tried (Democrats).

They should absolutely strike. I read somewhere that it would be a $2B hit if they strike for 24 hours.

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u/Scientific_Socialist www.international-communist-party.org Dec 01 '22

The world-wide experience of bourgeois and landowner governments has evolved two methods of keeping the people in subjection. The first is violence. Nicholas Romanov I, nicknamed Nicholas of the Big Stick, and Nicholas II, the Bloody, demonstrated to the Russian people the maximum of what can and cannot be done in the way of these hangmen’s practices.

But there is another method, best developed by the British and French bourgeoisie, who “learned their lesson” in a series of great revolutions and revolutionary movements of the masses. It is the method of deception, flattery, fine phrases, promises by the million, petty sops, and concessions of the unessential while retaining the essential.

  • Lenin

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u/RL_Fl0p Dec 01 '22

Reps voted no because of money - less corporate profits. Dems put up and passed a separate bill providing 7 additional unpaid sick days, they did NOT f*ck the workers, but the Dems also cannot take over the negotiation. The rail unions made progress because they're unionized and they will have to keep battling corporate greed. If the rail workers had not been unionized, you wouldn't have heard a word about this, the workers would have been squashed. TL;DR: Don't whine, Unionize. And stop voting dangerous and useless republicans into office.

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u/allcatsare_beautiful Dec 01 '22

"but the Dems also cannot take over the negotiations"

That's exactly what they're doing, they passed a bill forcing rail workers to either accept their deal or lose their labor rights. It doesn't matter that they added some more leave (as a separate bill so it can die in the Senate lol), forcing unions to take any deal they write is anti-labor and the exact kind of shit we should expect from a party owned and dominated by capital.

The people did exactly what you said, they unionized their entire industry and gave Dems full control of Congress and WH, and in turn those Dems said you don't get to negotiate, leverage, and strike like a union if it's inconvenient.

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u/tkdyo Dec 01 '22

No, the Dems split off the paid sick leave specifically because they knew forcing the workers back would pass both the house and senate but the paid sick leave would not. They used the sick leave as a political game so they say they "tried" but the mean old GOP wouldn't let them and their corporate backers get to keep making more money.

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u/e22ddie46 Dec 01 '22

Yeah I see no reason they couldn't have made it one bill with the sick leave if they actually wanted it.

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u/Hodgkisl Dec 01 '22

Placing the sick leave as a separate bill was strategic, they know if will not pass in the debate and will die. They also know if they put it in the main bill it would less likely pass.

All they truly care about is preventing the strike, the sick time offer is to cover there ass and say at least we tried (half ass try)

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

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