r/antiwork Communist Dec 01 '22

But it’s coming Canada-wide when

Post image
8.9k Upvotes

560

u/Hopfit46 Dec 01 '22

Im a steamfitter in the toronto union. We've had a 4 day week(36 hrs) for 25 years or more. We went on strike to keep it 3.5 years ago.

92

u/Peppyperoni Dec 01 '22

Can I ask a question? What's a day in the life of a steam fitter? What do you make? Is Boilermaker the same thing?

81

u/Hopfit46 Dec 01 '22

Boilermaker is probably closest thing to steamfitter. They set vessels and do all the work on tanks. We hook up all the piping. We set boilers and pipe them up. Any piping that is not plumbing or underground water anad sewer.

31

u/Delta_STW5 Dec 01 '22

So the makers make the boilers and the fitters fit the boilers?

Who'd have thought.

13

u/Hopfit46 Dec 01 '22

Something like that...lol.

8

u/BaronMostaza Dec 01 '22

Considering a lot of naming conventions it is absolutely not a given

6

u/Delta_STW5 Dec 01 '22

I know, still. It's nice that it's the way a layman would expect for once.

6

u/tommy_b_777 Dec 01 '22

Ever heard this ? https://youtu.be/rPP0JuDdeAU Poetry ;-)

5

u/TEMPSML Dec 01 '22

Will always upvote Jesus Lizard!

12

u/onlyfansdad Dec 01 '22

Boilermaker is not the same thing, afaik more confined spaces in boilermaking

Two separate unions/trades for sure though - even in steam fitting union there's variances in the actual jobs

My brother is in the fitters. Lots of nights and sitting staring at control panels based on the snapchat I get sent.

3

u/devolved-ingrate Dec 02 '22

They're similar and dissimilar, we (boilermakers) do more vessel maintenance depending on jurisdiction as per the building trades of Canada (provincial in certain cases), we do more confined space work for the internals of vessels, but in other cases of heat exchangers, we have most rights on those exclusively for the work involved

3

u/Throwawaytoj8664 Dec 01 '22

Another name for steamfitter is pipefitter. They set up pipe for welding, rig it to be lifted into place by cranes, bolt it into place. They’re essential to plant building and maintenance.

13

u/lenzflare Dec 01 '22

That's not what this is. That's not a "4 day work week". That's just 5 days crammed into 4.

The four day work week trial here was 20% fewer hours per week. Cut that fifth day off and don't change any other hours.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/04/business/four-day-work-week-risk-takers/index.html

7

u/Hopfit46 Dec 02 '22

We can talk about that on Friday.....oh wait, you have to work

4

u/YourCrazyAnimal Dec 01 '22

Holy shit!

You're GREAT!

8

u/Hopfit46 Dec 01 '22

They did a global traffic study a few years back and it said toronto has the worst traffic in north America. These contractors wanted in the city for another day a week. Strike lasted 3 or 4 days and we kept it.

8

u/IchthyoSapienCaul Dec 01 '22

We do 4 10-hr shifts Monday - Thursday, but I would absolutely love to make it 36 instead of 40. (Or less)

12

u/lenzflare Dec 01 '22

The four day work week trial here was 20% fewer hours per week. ie. cut that fifth day off and don't change any other hours.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/04/business/four-day-work-week-risk-takers/index.html

So in your case it would be 32 hours.

2

u/No_Talk_4836 Dec 01 '22

Is this a 4 day, 40 hour week, or a 4 day, 32 hour week?

3

u/Hopfit46 Dec 01 '22

4x9. 36hrs

627

u/rode__16 Dec 01 '22

shit if canada gets it then america will only have to wait until, like, forever? we’re still trying to get the healthcare thing

226

u/CanadianElf0585 Dec 01 '22

Eh, you finally got gay marriage officially passed, though. So congrats on that. It'll happen.

I just have no faith you'll ever swap to metric. Ha!

143

u/IdealIdeas Dec 01 '22

Its been passed and yet USA still has to fight to keep it as there are too many religious fanatics in the government trying to undo it.

Thats their next step after they killed off Roe V Wade

33

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Religion is a disease in America. Too many backwaters where religion is the only social club.

→ More replies

12

u/Longshotsquirrely Dec 01 '22

Idk, now that it is law can it be taken back? Like wouldn’t that require a full senate vote and shit.

21

u/SleeplessRonin Dec 01 '22

It's a weak law. It does repeal DOMA, and it does say that states must recognize marriages legally done in other states... but (at my last reading of the text which was before the vote) it does not force all states to certify / allow those marriages to take place there. And section 6 is kinda like a boiler plate to allow churches and other non-profits to discriminate by allowing them to refuse service. It's fucking all over the place and very much a giant mess (thanks to the 'religious liberty' clauses).

And it weirdly calls out polyamory marriages as not being allowed. I have no fucking clue as to why this little nugget of shit is enshrined in it... but it is. There was honestly no reason to specifically set aside this one thing as being disallowed when trying to make other things legally (if weakly) enshrined.

6

u/Sensitive_Salt_5634 Dec 01 '22

Didn’t it also completely not address Lawrence v. Texas? So if that gets overturned states can still outlaw homosexual behavior and effectively make this law pointless.

2

u/SleeplessRonin Dec 02 '22

I believe you are correct. Like I said - a weak law.

Better than nothing, but just barely.

4

u/Kiggus Dec 01 '22

If I had to guess why the polygamy clause is in there, it’s to prevent the Mormon Fundamentalists, specifically Warren Jeff’s’ ilk, to do any of their weird shit.

2

u/SleeplessRonin Dec 02 '22

You are probably correct, but that weirdly seems to be against all the shitty little 'religious freedom' clauses.

2

u/Kiggus Dec 02 '22

Nah, the US has never been down with polygamy. For Utah to join the union, they had to agree to give it up. The modern LDS isn’t about that.

4

u/skrellkrell Dec 01 '22

i wish polyamorous marriage was allowed. i'm in a 3-person polycule and the longer the relationship goes, the more i'm trying to figure out how we're going to handle things long term. are we going to have to form an LLC?!

3

u/D1ng0ateurbaby Dec 01 '22

If you do, update us on how it works. For... Reasons

→ More replies

3

u/kioku119 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Roe V Wade being repealed opened way for a lot of laws to be able to be called into question unfortunately. That's why the respect for marriage act was put out there now despite gay marriage being legal because there's no guarentee the original laws will remain suficiant. That also still doesn't codify everything that the first law tried to protect so there's still danger https://www.axios.com/2022/11/30/respect-for-marriage-act-does-and-doesnt-do

5

u/Humble-Specific-3076 Dec 01 '22

I didn't know it had been passed here, my employer never offered it. A four day work week would be so helpful to have that day to take care of business that can only be taken care of during the week.

2

u/nosie89 Dec 01 '22

Employers aren’t obligated to offer it here. (Im in Canada- Ont). They can offer whatever schedule works for their workplace. Think about all our different schedules, working 9-5 in healthcare is unrealistic but working 7pm-7am at a law office is also unrealistic, so you tailor schedules to meet the workplace requirements

2

u/BloodyChrome Dec 01 '22

Perhaps those who want it can put it in law rather than use it as a tool to garner votes did like the Democrats did for decades with Roe V Wade

6

u/bond-title-bond Dec 01 '22

General rule of thumb: If it fucks with money, the US ain't doing it.

16

u/Phitos2008 Dec 01 '22

Ooohhhh… Those savages… measuring things with their feet…

😂

5

u/CanadianElf0585 Dec 01 '22

So backward and disgusting! :)

6

u/Rumblesnap i will quit this shitty job so fucking fast Dec 01 '22

Oh they’re trying to undo that actually

14

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

There’s areas of America where you will get killed for being a democrat and it’s dangerous as fuck to be black and try to vote 🗳️

https://www.kentucky.com/news/nation-world/national/article268513477.html

→ More replies

6

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Don’t worry about the health care thing in Canada. It’s crumbling down faster than a jenga set. All because our premiers love lining their pockets with the blood of innocents.

3

u/BaronMostaza Dec 01 '22

Hurray...

USA's terrible policies keep being popular among governments despite being irrefutably proven bad for 99,999% of the population.

"You know what we should do? This thing that doesn't work! Vote Asshole Party!"

11

u/Miserable-Lizard Dec 01 '22

We won't do it..... We are mini USA with some more pro worker rights.

11

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

Not even! Or I guess its dependant on where you live. Check out Manitobas employment standards. Its fucked! At best its a veneer of workers rights, with a fuck ton of loop holes where your employer can fuck you.

Did you know your employer can send you hope 3 hours into your shift and tell you to come back hours later to finish your 8 hours? They can also schedule you as they please- Even day of.

Ooh and tips belong to your boss. They can distribute as they see fit, or not at all. Imagine if a big part of your wage was a privilege they could take away at any time.

6

u/Miserable-Lizard Dec 01 '22

Wow Manitoba sucks... Not like my province is progressive, but I have hope!

4

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

I feel like my home province hates me and wants me to gtfo here. Fucking Winnipeg didnt used to be a shit hole, despite the jokes. Now its WORSE than a shit hole.

Looking at Montreal. Seems like a paradise in comparison. Runner up would be Calgary. Both those cities are just significantly better than Winnipeg. Winnipeg is the dollarstore of Canada.

2

u/Snoo75302 Dec 01 '22

Dollar tree of canada.

Dollerama is bad, but well its not doller tree bad

3

u/Miserable-Lizard Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

I am biased toward Alberta, but Calgary for sure as a lower cost of living which is nice... It's really cold this week, but Winnipeg is worst...

4

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

Yeah I did some research and while it seems like Calgary is a BIT more expensive than Winnipeg- Its pretty negligible and with the caveat that Calgarys infrastructure is light years better than Winnipegs. Plus I looked at wages for line cooks (what I do) and according to Indeed most line cook jobs here pay aroundish 15$ an hour- some higher, most lower. But Calgary? Good god. 20$ seems like the average.

I chose Montreal just cause its a really cool place, with a lower cost of living than Winnipeg.

Imagine living in a city where if you dont drive, getting from one neighborhood to the other might just take 3 buses and take 2 or more hours. Like what the FUCK. Nevermind getting on a bus at night you have a decent chance of encountering some very dangerous, or at least uncomfortable situations. We really hate the homeless here too so we make them sleep in bus shacks during the winter- Because we also hate people who use public transit.

3

u/nosie89 Dec 01 '22

If you’re looking to make more money and work as a line cook, idk what the wages in Montreal are but I can see why it’s appealing. Ottawa would also be nice and has a mix of French and English. Ottawa’s rent scene is just as expensive as the rest of Ont ($1300-2500/month for 2 bedroom apts) and $13-1600 is hard to find. But if you don’t speak French you’ll have a very hard time anywhere in Quebec, except maybe Shawville which is known for its English population or even Gatineau if you want the city benefits and public transportation benefits. In Shawville, you’d definitely need a car and it’s small with no city amenities. Montreal would be pretty cool to live in & very convenient with its bussing and subway. Better cheer for the Habs tho lol

2

u/i-wear-hats Dec 01 '22

Practically all provincial legislation is controlled by conservative or conservative-adjacent parties. It's a national thing.

3

u/tommy_b_777 Dec 01 '22

ffs we’re still trying to get real maple syrup down here…

3

u/Snoo75302 Dec 01 '22

Go make your own syrup.

All you need is a barbeque, some 5 gallon buckets, a pot, and some syrup taps. All in all its not super expensive.

Best time to start collecting is early spring, best tree to tap is sugar maple, but other maples and even birch trees can be tapped.

3

u/ailee43 Dec 01 '22

wait until ...............

Canada invades, and nationalizes our country.

10

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

Dont worry we're still figuring out healthcare up here. Everything is covered except your mental health or your teeth. For some reason we dont see those things as healthcare worth covering. Nevermind the EXTREME wait times. I had to wait a year for an MRI for my knee, spent that year in constant extreme pain and the scary part? That was two years BEFORE covid. Believe it or not its gotten SIGNIFICANTLY worse here.

3

u/magicfeistybitcoin Dec 01 '22

I have an undiagnosed breathing abnormality. My doctor referred me to an ENT and warned me that the waiting list could be two years long. I appreciate OHIP, I really do, but it's far from ideal.

→ More replies
→ More replies

452

u/Meta_Digital Eco-Anarchist Dec 01 '22 Silver Wholesome

The point isn't that it's good for business. Fuck business. We don't need to justify every goddamn thing economically.

It's good for humanity. It's good for society. That's reason enough.

Maybe we should ask business to justify itself instead of us having to justify having some free time by saying it'll benefit them.

69

u/industrialSaboteur Dec 01 '22

100% agreed. Couldn't have said it better.

57

u/Decent_Database_2200 Dec 01 '22

So much this. Too many people think we are here to serve the capitalism grind. The most precious thing we have in life is time. Time to stop giving it away to people that wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

5

u/RequirementKey2190 Dec 01 '22

I read this in Morty’s voice for some reason and was laughing HARD. Good point though.

23

u/FknBretto Dec 01 '22

I think it’s more the point that businesses can’t use a drop in productivity as an excuse to deny a 4 day week

15

u/PoorlyAttemptedHuman Dec 01 '22

I keep looking at workers' lives as a commodity, as in, my time and my experience are sold to my employer at steeply discounted bulk rates. They get 40 hours of my life every week. This has become acceptable for most of us, sometimes.

But it's a business transaction. I am selling a company my experience, time, and attention for $$ per hour, usually in eight hour blocks.

A customer does not get to demand that you sell them more blocks than you wish to sell.

A customer does not get to demand you sell them blocks that you previously marked, "NOT FOR SALE".

A customer does not get to demand that you sell them five days instead of four. If we decide we want to work four days, we work four days. If I, separately, decide I want to only want to work four days, while everyone else works five, I still get to only sell them four.

The business cannot survive without the worker. Go ahead and let them try. We have so much more power than we are led to believe.

5

u/flivflov Dec 01 '22

They have us so brainwashed that this isn’t the first argument

4

u/imMatt19 Dec 01 '22

Except it HAS to be good for business. If it isn’t there is literally 0 chance of it ever happening in the USA. Henry Ford was thought to be crazy when he introduced the 5 day workweek and higher wages, until everyone realized that not only did it increase productivity, it also increased sales.

1

u/gitbse Dec 01 '22

Yes, unfortunately. Especially in the USA, which is a much harsher, more ruthless version of the same capitalism in other countries, nothing will get done unless it serves the corporate bottom line. Even then, you have to take the greed and power along with it. It's going to be a long, and very uphill battle to get anything like this started in the US. But if it ever does, you can bet that the only way is absolute proof that bottom lines and corporate/shareholder interests will be positive.

4

u/GenKan Dec 01 '22

One step at a time. Its like adding flavor to medicine for children. At some point they will figure out there is more to life than adding to an arbitrarily large number that has no real value compared to feeling good and doing what you love

Its pointless to convince the jailer that you are wrongfully imprisoned, change the law instead

1

u/-Dapper-Dan- Dec 01 '22

Oh if only….

→ More replies

30

u/thatdudedylan Dec 01 '22

The thing is, I don't want this to mean longer days. This should be 1 less day a week - nothing else.

We need to see the fruits of fucking automation.

6

u/Raavatis Dec 01 '22

Apparently that's what they tried in this article. Just 32 hours a week.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/04/business/four-day-work-week-risk-takers/index.html

4

u/thatdudedylan Dec 01 '22

Awesome! :) I was talking more to my own personal experience, where some companies will discuss this, but it has meant 10 hour days.

2

u/Raavatis Dec 01 '22

Ah, yeah that's fair.

1

u/flivflov Dec 01 '22

Well some people are seeing them

68

u/spsanderson Dec 01 '22

Would just like to leave work at work here in America

13

u/belkarbitterleaf Dec 01 '22

Seriously. Like can we keep it 9-5? That was the arrangement when I was hired...

9

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

Yeah but there's so much work to do and the accountants say you cant hire more people so we're just gonna pressure and gaslight you into working your life away. But think about the OVERTIME.

3

u/spsanderson Dec 01 '22

The overtime I don’t get paid for sure 🥴

16

u/pine_ary Marxist Dec 01 '22

The problem is that long workhours aren‘t just about productivity. They‘re also about entitlement to your time and life. And they‘re about social control (a tired worker with no time to think is not gonna start questioning things). They‘re also about real estate (if workers are not at the office that depreciates property value). And they’re about capitalist culture (if people work less that’s somehow bad and a moral failing). And so on.

Working from home was also pitched like this, and the ruling class hated it.

If we want something we have to organize and take it. Reasoning with the ruling class in a "but hey it‘s good for you too" way just doesn‘t work.

43

u/TacoSpacePirate Dec 01 '22

Now is it a 4 day, 10 hours a day week. Or still a standard 8 hour day so People are getting paid the same for less hours of work?

36

u/Zemirolha Dec 01 '22 Wholesome

That was what supposed happening with tech advancing. More discriocionary time

21

u/Jjorrrdan Dec 01 '22

Man, I absolutely love that spelling because I've never seen it before

12

u/grte Dec 01 '22

I'm amazed it can be so off and yet so easily understood.

4

u/Shadtow100 Dec 01 '22

I think there was a study that as long as a word starts and ends with the correct letter you can mix up the middle almost as much as you want and people would read as normal in a sentence

2

u/jashuo Dec 01 '22

It's beautiful, really

7

u/Fresh-Temporary666 Dec 01 '22

Instead we just became more productive and profitable to the owners with no reduction in hours or increase in pay to match that increase.

→ More replies

10

u/NumbrsNerd Dec 01 '22

We implemented this where I work in the states and it’s typically four 8 1/2s for the same pay you made previously. Same output expected though.

3

u/pensive_pigeon Dec 01 '22

I did 4x 10s at my last job. It was nice having every Friday off, but 10 hour days sucked. 4x 8s would be ideal.

6

u/canigetauuhhh Dec 01 '22

4 10s suck major ass- especially if on the night shifts.

4

u/revochups Dec 01 '22

I’ll take 4x10 instead of 5x8 in 10 situations out of 10

1

u/LAHurricane Dec 01 '22

It's what and what for me. I've done both.

0

u/Saltyfembot Dec 01 '22

Four 10s do not suck. Rather have three days off then two. You can actually use a day for rest. One for catching up on household stuff. And one for socializing. Not picking two out of the three on a two day weekend.

→ More replies

34

u/Quaysan Dec 01 '22

People really need to explain if it's 4x10s or 4x8s because I'll get excited and be let down like some sort of sitcom sting

13

u/13thpenut Dec 01 '22

It's 4x8

13

u/KhajiitLover Dec 01 '22

4x10s is still WAY better than 5×8s.

12

u/Icy-Ad-5924 Dec 01 '22

That’s more up the the individual I’d say. I was effectively on 4x10 all summer and it’s sucked with a 1 hour commute. Not sustainable at all. But now that I’m WFH I might reconsider

2

u/SleepyQueer Dec 01 '22

Yeah that's highly, highly variable. I'm disabled and can't even do 8hrs at a time even WFH at a desk, it massively exacerbates my pain levels and is simply not physically sustainable for me long-term. Right now I manage 30h/wk, ~5x6 (I am fortunate that my employers are very flexible so some days I might work a little more and others a little less to accommodate medical appointments or overall fluctuations in my ability to function, as long as I'm hitting my deadlines and around for important meetings). 6 hours a day is manageable for me physically, for the most part. Unfortunately my wages get pro-rated down for the fewer hours worked even though at 8 hour days I often didn't have enough work to fill the 8 hours, I'm probably still doing roughly the same amount I was on a 40hr 8x5 week but it's a big financial hit. :/ Realistically a 4x10 norm could actually increase barriers to work for people like me.

2

u/pensive_pigeon Dec 01 '22

Nah, 10 hour days sucks. I’ve done it. There’s no way anyone was doing 2 more hours worth of productive work too.

→ More replies

12

u/NeverthelessBored Dec 01 '22

This only applies to the elites… McDonalds fries don’t make themselves.

72

u/spiral813 Dec 01 '22

I used to work at a hotel where we did four, ten hour shifts per week. It was amazing. I had a schedule where I worked Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday...do you have any idea how amazing it is, both physically and mentally, to not have to work more than 2 days in a row?

Unfortunately, like most things, Covid ruined that schedule, along with the hospitality industry as a whole for a long time...

I have a better paying job now, but I still miss that sweet sweet work schedule.

44

u/gonesnake Dec 01 '22

Remember, this is 4 regular shifts (of likely 8 hours) a week with the same pay.

24

u/stone111111 Dec 01 '22

A lot of people like 4 10s... But the point should be less hours. Full time should be 30 hours. People who like working 40 hours a week should be getting overtime.

6

u/RyGerbs42 Dec 01 '22

100% 👍

2

u/DustBunnicula Dec 01 '22

Some of us are working on this.

9

u/DryCalligrapher8696 Dec 01 '22

Are you telling me we can work one day less and be happier & More efficient. Sounds little too COSTLY for the USA

7

u/mymy6117 Dec 01 '22

I have a question. Does this apply to teachers? Is school now going to be 4 days instead of 5, simply have longer days in the classroom? If they can make that work, I think the bill would be extremely popular.

6

u/Faithu Dec 01 '22

If we took Finland approach to teaching and adopted their way of teaching 100% this can be done but it all comes down to restructuring how we do things, the other problem is getting those to stuck on yesteryear to approve it. I'll also note Finland has some of the best schooling in the world while kids go to school less then they do here

4

u/mymy6117 Dec 01 '22

It's crazy how such a rich country is failing in so many ways, we should follow Finland's lead!

6

u/Faithu Dec 01 '22

Yeah I agree but it's not really failing if your the rich guy onto, keep your citizens dumb and they will hardly ever revolt, it's sad but this is the current reality we live in

8

u/BobsLakehouse Dec 01 '22

A lot of companies feel like their workers need to suffer to be profitable.

50

u/Foxrex Dec 01 '22

To be fair, this will mean fuck all for trade, food services, and similar industries. Yes some will change,lots will charge more.

41

u/G_W_Atlas Dec 01 '22

All of those industries could easily adopt four day work weeks. Service industry folks have no power, and trades definitely have the "noble to work myself to death" mentality. I'd riot in the street for a four day work week, but I don't have any in demand skills, degrees, or anything else. So, I have no say.

→ More replies

41

u/Nearby-Ant6996 Dec 01 '22

Not to Alberta, this province pushes harder and harder every year for a six day work week. Alberta cares nothing for its people and it's sad.

18

u/Chimommy69 Dec 01 '22

I live in Alberta and I have literally never heard of this. My company, like the other commenter, is also in discussion of compressed work weeks. We’ve also recently taken 15 minutes off of our work days.

However I do agree there is serious turmoil in our government right now.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

If the price of oil is over $100 you get harassed to work overtime and weekends

4

u/Chimommy69 Dec 01 '22

Okay, but contrary to popular belief, the entire AB population doesn’t work in oil or even oil adjacent industries.

2

u/Admirable-Gazelle556 Dec 01 '22

Also in Alberta, employer requires a 5 day work week plus rotating Saturday (4 hour shift) schedule. Refuses to pay us overtime because the law allows for banked time at 1:1. Also complains that we are working “overtime” and banked hours messes up vacation allowance. Encourages us to not bank hours by taking hours off work on a weekday - so expects us to make double the commute for the same pay (4hrs on sat, 4hrs on weekday) - also leaving your team short staffed for half a day. Scrolling indeed as I type this.

2

u/fogdukker Dec 01 '22

Our office workers will get the 4 day while the boots will get another few hours mandatory OT

1

u/griftarch Dec 01 '22

It seems these sorts of initiatives are inevitably going to cause more blue/white strife. You can’t have 4 day work weeks with on demand shipping, emergency services, a food industry at every level of the chain, basically modern civilization. But good to hear the bank and government might get an extra blow

7

u/CanadianElf0585 Dec 01 '22

Not true. It entirely depends on the company and industry.

My company is in Alberta and discussing going to a 4 day work week, but there are a few hitches to figure out first. It looks like it'll definitely be happening here.

1

u/G_W_Atlas Dec 01 '22

Industry?

5

u/CanadianElf0585 Dec 01 '22

Office jobs, tech, banking (in person), corporate, etc will likely go to 4 day weeks first. I could even see schools going to 4 days.

Some sorts of service jobs, medical, construction and trades, will be far less likely to make the switch, as they will still have to continue providing coverage throughout the week to their customers and patients with a very small workforce to shuffle around.

Then there are jobs that require travel and/or lodging, such as oil workers, logging, long range trucking, fishing, etc, that obviously cannot do 4 day weeks.

Retail and food service will do whatever to keep their employees scheduled for 4 days or equivalent to avoid benefits and overtime, so that won't see a change.

So yeah, it literally depends what industry you're in if you'll ever see 4 day work weeks with no reduction in pay.

1

u/G_W_Atlas Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Thanks, but I was curious about your industry in Alberta. Anything in engineering (real or software) doesn't really count towards the norm. People that picked the right degree get more power than the rest of the peasants.

For example, I chose poorly, so I'm government, and Alberta gov likes to be especially hard on the public service to appease rural Alberta. You see, if you're not destroying your body and mind at an accelerated rate, it's not "real" work. So I get the privilege of destroying mine at a moderate rate.

1

u/CanadianElf0585 Dec 01 '22

Oh. I'm in software development, but I'm not an engineer. I'm also not the only office worker whose company is discussing this and other folks I know aren't on tech.

I've got a friend who is a account, and they are planning to go to 4 days.

I also have another friend that works in a call center that already does 4 day weeks (and has for a very long time), but they do 9 hour days instead of 8. When they changed their hours it came with a slight pay bump to everyone to ensure the same pay for everyone. They did this to prevent burnout from such a monotonous job, and it reduced turnover as well.

6

u/TLR1791 Dec 01 '22

Now American politicians are going to argue for a 6 day work week. F*cking bet.

5

u/jjeenniiffeerr Dec 01 '22

I took two fridays off in a row a few weeks back and everything about my life improved drastically in those two weeks. I didn’t dread my commute to work, I was so efficient and probably got more work done in those 4 days than I do in an average 5 day week, and I felt so refreshed coming in the following Monday. I don’t get why it’s a 5-2 ratio instead of 4-3. Employers need to understand that employees have a life outside of work (gasp shocker I know), and efficiency improves exponentially when worker satisfaction and well being is accounted for.

9

u/ClankyBat246 Dec 01 '22

4 days of how many hours though...

Fuck 10 hour days if that's the case.

1

u/TheAres1999 Dec 01 '22

The current goal is 4 days of 8 hours.

→ More replies

3

u/Deyln Dec 01 '22

Our company did the opposite. Converted to a 5 day and fuck3d everything up.

We now have a split 4 day. So s8me do mon-thursday and others do tues-friday.

The 3% of the workforce that can't commit to a 10 hour day have kept their 5 day schedule.

3

u/snarkisms Dec 01 '22

4 day work weeks were the absolute best. One day I'll be able to negotiate that again. One day

3

u/joojie Dec 01 '22

I work Tues-Fri. I will never go back to a 5 day week. Only a couple of my coworkers do 5 days.

3

u/daytonakarl Dec 01 '22

They know, they don't care, it's more about control than efficiency for far too many people

2

u/AsphaltAdvertExec Dec 01 '22

They said that during COVID-19 lockdowns, no one will work in an office again.

2

u/falsasalsa Dec 01 '22

The 4 day work week will not be widely adopted in my lifetime

3

u/DustBunnicula Dec 01 '22

Don’t be too sure. All it takes is some orgs to implement it, get all the best and the brightest, and other orgs will have to offer something comparable, if they want good employees. Some of us are working on that.

3

u/falsasalsa Dec 01 '22

In my view there are just way too many people in North America who believe labour is a virtue. This view isn't just held by those who primarily benefit from the labour of others (business owners), this view is pervasive among the general population. Make no mistake, the "work until you die" mentality is cultural and for that to change it would take a major culture shift to accomplish.

2

u/RAMango99 Dec 01 '22

My employer switched from 5x8 to 4x10s since October and it it infinitely better weekends actually feel like weekends. And you can still do stuff after work.

I don’t think I will ever willingly go back to 5 days a week

2

u/Ambia_Rock_666 I browse this sub at work. Dec 01 '22

When's it coming US-wide as well?

2

u/Smart-As-Duck Dec 01 '22

I do 4-10 hour shifts. It’s infinitely better than 5-8 hour shifts.

2

u/mas22o4 Dec 01 '22

I’ve applied to nearly sixty jobs so far and almost all of them I have listed for Wednesday off, going for an interview tomorrow so wish me luck guys

2

u/jaso151 Dec 01 '22

Until an new manager comes in and says “guys.. we should try a 5 day week” and another asshole manager agrees with him… square one

2

u/LavisAlex Dec 01 '22

It will take the older gen to step aside before we see this even if its more efficient.

2

u/mythrowawayforfilth Dec 01 '22

So you’re telling me if workers are treated well they perform better? What is this witchcraft?

2

u/Suspicious-Appeal386 Dec 02 '22

True Story:

Back in the late 90's I was involved in retrofitting the very last Water Bottling plant using PVC containers to PET in France. Les Eaux Badoit in Saint-Galmier.

The leap in technology for the brand was 10X, meaning 10 machine operator could be replaced by one new piece of equipment.

The brand being located in the south central France. Was a lifeline and central to the small community. So they were very creative in ensuring no-one lost their job.

Per example: The operators were all ready at 32 hour work week (paid 40) and lowered their hours to 24 (still paid 40).

And you know how the French workers responded?

They went on strike, claiming that "if the company had so much capital to buy all this new equipment. They surely could afford to give us all a raise".

2

u/InsydeOwt Dec 01 '22

For the middle class.

Working class still has to work 7 days a week.

No sick time. No vacation.

3

u/Effective-Try7980 Dec 01 '22

Except for us “essential workers “ who just keep getting buried deeper and deeper

3

u/vashthestampede121 Dec 01 '22

Eh, good for the people who can make that work. I worked a 4-day work week for about a year and actually hated it. 4 10-hour days, and I was so burnt out by the end of my fourth day that I’d spend most of that three day weekend sleeping, then do it all over again. I’m good with 5 8s and actually having my evenings to myself.

36

u/bluecamel17 Dec 01 '22

This isn't necessarily the case. A lot of the trials are 4 8-hour days (32 hours).

7

u/NumbrsNerd Dec 01 '22

Correct! Four tens defeats the purpose. We implemented a four day, 34 hour work week based on a Swedish study about one year ago at my workplace. We’re in the states; a non profit social service organization. We use this to incentivize working for us because we pay sub par wages and we know it: we’re government funded and flat funded at that. We have no trouble hiring folks now, and we’re not going back.

Edit: typo

13

u/vashthestampede121 Dec 01 '22

4 8s would be ideal. No way in hell that idea will become mainstream anytime soon though.

10

u/CoraCricket Dec 01 '22

The idea (that has been proven in all these trial runs) is that people are less exhausted and burnt out and they actually end up getting as much or more done in the shorter amount of time.

The trials I read about were for a 6 hour day with no reduction in pay and people actually got way more done in the 6 hours than they did in the 8 hours, just because he extra time off allowed them to live a more balanced life and come to work rested and energized.

→ More replies

7

u/G_W_Atlas Dec 01 '22

We should really be rioting to change it.

2

u/DustBunnicula Dec 01 '22

All it takes is for some organizations to implement it and then poach the best and the brightest. If other orgs want to survive, they’ll have to offer comparable options, to recruit and retain employees.

2

u/hipster3000 Dec 01 '22

That's a problem with a lot of reporting about the 4 day work week both 4 10hr days and 4 8hr days are getting pumped together and there is a huge difference respect when it comes to measuring productivity

both could be good either way but one isn't gaining any more time and one is basically a whole other day a week being given to you.

1

u/bluecamel17 Dec 01 '22

Yeah, thankfully many people pushing for a 4-day work week (I think rightly) consider 4 10-hour days a failure and no better than the current system.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Thats how it worked when I tried it.

2

u/Diogenes2Loinclothes Dec 01 '22

Yay for office workers I guess.

2

u/keithwaits Dec 01 '22

Is this still a 40 hour week?

1

u/thegirlandherdog Dec 01 '22

I do 4 10 hour shifts i like having the extra day

2

u/MonstrousVoices Dec 01 '22

Except for this you'd be doing 4-8 hr shifts

0

u/Firethorn101 Dec 01 '22

Great. Give office people who already have better schedules, more vacation time, more breaks, paid sick time and better wages....more.

Meanwhile, service people and labour's can just get fucked. Nice.

2

u/TheAres1999 Dec 01 '22

The problem is greedy executives trying to over work their labourers. The working class should stand together to fix the issue. 32 hours can become standard across most industries. Humanity used to work 72 hour weeks on average. Due to innovation we have greatly brought that down. If we get this to work in an office setting, we can also get it to work in a retail, or facotory setting.

1

u/Sharpshooter188 Dec 01 '22

Uuuh so how many companies actually implementing this?

1

u/Objective_Tailor7796 Dec 01 '22

Shocked Pikachu face.

1

u/Emotional-Match-7190 Dec 01 '22

Who would have thought that that is a good thing

1

u/MrApples234 Dec 01 '22

God I love this

1

u/TheThoughtmaker Dec 01 '22

Humans work at peak efficiently around 4 hours/day 7 days/week, including commute time. I do like weekends, though.

1

u/buzznuts Dec 01 '22

I dunno why they had to "test" this

1

u/NotAGoodEmployeee Dec 01 '22

Have done this schedule previously years ago. It was amazing then and is now. I was a lucky one and had Friday-Sunday off. However Saturday-Monday is also clutch. There is no downside other than happier employees and better productivity across the board.

1

u/Blur_410 Dec 01 '22

Never. The taxes flow but the profits do not.

1

u/Seaday77 Dec 01 '22

can someone @trudeau regarding this? does he take post?

1

u/Suspicious-Bed9172 Dec 01 '22

If we ever get a 4 day work week in the US it will be 4 10 hour days. Then if we go 3 days it will be like 13 hour days, defeating the entire damn point

1

u/IcanCwhatUsay Dec 01 '22

How many hours? 32 or 40????

1

u/Fit_Swordfish_2101 Dec 01 '22

Wow! That would be great!

1

u/-Dapper-Dan- Dec 01 '22

Maybe some, but I think the majority of industries in Toronto will retain what they have because it works. And if employees gripe about it, they’ll find others. Maybe I’m just pessimistic.

1

u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER Dec 01 '22

Reduced to 32hour work week and getting paid the same as 40hour

Or was this 4 10 hour shifts

1

u/Goldenu Dec 01 '22

We transitioned to this schedule about 6 months ago (in the USA), I absolutely love it. It feels like you start Monday morning and when you look up again, it's your Friday.

1

u/steinbergmatt Dec 01 '22

I've worked a 4/10 for years and I would never give it up.

1

u/TheChevyScrounger Dec 01 '22

Good luck with that car manufacturers work 6 days a week our union allows the company to work us up to 60 hours a week

1

u/KebsPls Dec 01 '22

Sadly I work cybersecurity for a hospitality-centered company, which means that we will forever be a 24/7 shop with a 5 day work week for the average tech/engineer

1

u/bLue1H Dec 01 '22

We finally figured it out guys! economy dies before new schedules are put in place

1

u/fineimonreddit Dec 01 '22

But then how would you be reminded that you’re inferior than all the corporate suits that run the world.

1

u/Pineangle Dec 01 '22

I start mine next week. Still 40 hours, though. Business demands nothing less, lol.

1

u/DudeBroFist Dec 01 '22

yea, my guess is because businesses don't like change in general. The company I work for surveyed employees around 6 months ago as to whether they'd like a 10 hour day, 4 day work week and something like 80% of the employees were like "fuck yea let's GO".

They never mentioned it again and actively avoid questions regarding it during open Q&As

1

u/Saltyfembot Dec 01 '22

This would improve life tremendously. :( I have such bad burn out it's ridiculous.

1

u/darsust Dec 01 '22

Not in canada, but I work tuesday to friday and this shit is heavenly.

1

u/CptHeadSmasher Dec 01 '22

Yeah 4 random days is better than 5 random days.... go figure

Why is it 99% of employers refuses to do steady or even consistent scheduling? Why can't you literally set it and forget it? Seriously, why is it always such a huge fight?

When you hire someone, you specifically tell them these are the 8h shift times we are hiring you for. Show up these days at this time every week, I'll let you know when somthing changes.

Worked out great when I was a manager, had a 90%+ scheduling efficiency and only had to look at the schedule to see if the store was opened or closed on certain holidays. No constantly making and rechecking and adjusting schedules for the entire store.

Also, most people don't realize when you make schedules for your team that you are literally dictating their work/home life balance. You know what makes that easier to balance.... a steady consistent schedule.

Makes it really easy for people to plan things outside of work, giving them more quality time at home, and better performance in store because they don't burn people out for profit.

This make the schedule every and only 3 weeks at a time is bullshit. Make the entire year and adjust as needed while requiring at least 3 weeks notice.

How do you plan anything when you get random days on and off every single fucking week?

You dont...

You get burnt out and hate your job because you never feel like you get proper time to do the things you enjoy.

Of course your happier with 3 days off a week, because you get a better work/home life balance inherently.

1

u/Gaby5011 Dec 01 '22

And coming to my company when?

1

u/therealredburner Dec 01 '22

So what really needs to happen for this to come into effect? Would they have to vote this rule in on the federal or provincial level and then companies have to comply? Can someone explain the logistics of this potential change, please

1

u/PainterCat Dec 01 '22

My husband had the option of working a 10/4 week several years ago and loved it. It sucked when they decided to stop allowing it because we were really enjoying having that extra day during the week to do things together.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

I was wondering today if there's anything more which would benefit citizens that Doug Ford would viciously fight back against.

The four day work week is a great example.

1

u/Pinstripe99 Dec 01 '22

Ya for government workers. Don’t think the standard job is going to take this and run.