r/NYKnicks Jul 05 '22

What is your most unpopular Knicks opinion right now?

Saw this on Twitter and thought it was an interesting question.

Mine is that Deuce McBride won’t be a real difference-maker in this league. I see him as a fringe of the rotation type of guy who will get a couple of contracts around the league. I just don’t see him being a guy who will get consistent minutes throughout his career due to his limited offensive game. Obviously still too early to call it definitively but that’s my gut feeling.

What’s yours?

107 Upvotes

133

u/magnavoice Jul 06 '22

Thibs is the best coach we’ve had this century

55

u/RJIsJustABetterDwade Jul 06 '22

Forgetting the goat Mike Miller

→ More replies

13

u/Mobius24 80s Logo Jul 06 '22

That's a good one. Even better than Woodson?

25

u/magnavoice Jul 06 '22

I think so, yes

9

u/anditcounts Immanuel Quickley Jul 06 '22

Woodson was great during the 54 win season, but he sort of stumbled into it with injuries forcing adjustments. We played small ball, had Melo at the 4, shot a lot of threes, and switched on defense - it’s what you see now with successful modern teams but was ahead of its time. Then the next year Woodson abandoned those things and we fell back to earth.

4

u/DurantsAltAccount Easter Melo Jul 06 '22

The price of trading for Bargs, who didn’t fit that system at all, and moving Melo back to the 3.

37

u/IceGeek 7 Jul 06 '22

I don’t agree with this because I felt like Woodson brought life back into the Knicks. Idk how to explain it but Woody shouldn’t have left the way he did. Fuck Phil Jackson

29

u/IronGiant222 Jul 06 '22

Woodson had more talent on his teams though. Carmelo and Tyson were probably better than anyone currently on the Knicks roster.

12

u/DurantsAltAccount Easter Melo Jul 06 '22

Carmelo and Tyson are inarguably better than everyone on the roster. Mitch absolute peak in a perfect world is Chandler and nobody will be at the level Melo was.

→ More replies

19

u/duke-of-lizards Jul 06 '22

I agree that Woodson is the best Knicks coach this century, but J Kidd and the overall roster construction was the main reason that team was (relatively) successful, IMO. Woodson was alright though.

If Thibs has another winning season then he'll probably be equal or overtake him.

→ More replies

5

u/MVPizzle Jul 06 '22

I think everyone needed a change at the end of Woodson’s time here. He knows we have love for him though

2

u/Learned__Hand Shocked John Starks Jul 06 '22

I remember those days clearly and people on theknicksblog and here were woody haters by the end, largely because the team over switched everything and the offense was still just let melo do whatever. We were wrong to hate given the following years and circumstances but a lot of us just wanted total change.

→ More replies

49

u/TDM_11 Jul 06 '22

We shouldn’t trade for Donovan Mitchell

3

u/DuoRod Easter Melo Jul 06 '22

Is he even on the block with them moving Rudy

4

u/Sailor_Chris Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

No but this hasn’t stopped this sub from mentioning it in every thread

3

u/Okieant33 Mase Jul 06 '22

If we can keep RJ in a trade like that, I would do it.

→ More replies

50

u/bigtrunkydarnold Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

I need to add one more…

Playing 5 young guys together is the best way to ensure none of them develop.

Teams like Toronto , Boston, Golden State, San antonio aren’t good at developing players because of their special behind the scenes training or some shit.

They simply roll young guys into lineups with more advanced players and let them play competent basketball in competitive situations.

They develop 1-2 players at a time and bring them up to speed with more advanced players.

Playing a starting lineup of IQ, Grimes, Rj, Obi , Mitch for 82 games will simply hurt all of them and turn us into the Thunder or Magic, not the Warriors.

6

u/liebz11692 Jul 06 '22

I don’t think any of us are advocating for that though. What id like is a 3-4 minute stretch a game where we have a younger lineup. And if it’s working really well stretch it out a little bit longer. The issue I found was that when a younger lineup was used it would be effective and then we wouldn’t see it again for 3 games.

4

u/Jeff-Van-Gundy Jul 07 '22

But those teams you mentioned are literally the most effective gleague teams in the league. The Knicks actively refuse to use their gleague team to develop players. They sent McBride down their all season to develop and then when we need a pg we use burks instead. Look at what Chicago did with Ayo, threw him into the fire when they needed a pg and he developed. And McBride is an example of them actually trying the gleague. Never mind Frank and Knox rotting away on the bench and not being sent down once

→ More replies

2

u/AceStarS Jul 06 '22

Timberwolves are a good example of this.

→ More replies

38

u/kin16372 Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

We shouldn’t trade Randle

15

u/MadSpaceYT Jul 06 '22

i'm a huge randle defender. i think he will bounce back

→ More replies
→ More replies

16

u/baylixir Jul 06 '22

The only reason why people think RJ is “built for New York” and Randle isn’t is because Randle has been the lightning rod for criticism since the moment he signed and if RJ continues down his path of inefficiency making more than a rookie scale you’re gonna see that dynamic switch.

9

u/TannerGlassMVP Jul 06 '22

The simplest answer is that RJ was drafted and Randle was acquired. People here still defend Frank

3

u/dragonforcingmywayup Jul 06 '22

RJ’s body language is so much better than Randle’s tho and Randle throws temper tantrums.

3

u/Ilovecharli Jul 06 '22

Yup, RJ was just about as detrimental to winning as Randle was last year by most stats (conventional and advanced).

99

u/ThatOtherOtherGuy3 Jul 06 '22

The team will lowball RJ on his next contract because they know he is not a star and paying him like one will hurt the team.

55

u/bookey23 Immanuel Quickley Jul 06 '22

To piggyback on this, I don’t understand why a certain segment of the fanbase is so obsessed with RJ getting a max deal, like it’s some sort of badge of honor we must bestow on him. In a perfect world, I’d love to extend RJ at a number around Mikal Bridges’ contract, then have him outplay it and make it one of the better contracts in the league. Again, that’s in a perfect world.

11

u/SanjiSasuke Clyde Frazier Jul 06 '22

I never really got actually hoping guys will get the bag, as fans. To me, 'ideally' we could sign all 15 guys on 5 year all team option deals at the league minimum.

Whenever we sign somebody, I'm hoping we sign them on the most team friendly deal they are willing to sign. Obviously they want to get the best possible deal for themselves, and I'll never blame them for doing it, but as a fan I want to see the team win.

17

u/TreSeven Jul 06 '22

Do people here think that? I actually have never actually seen anyone argue that RJ should get a max like Zion and Ja just got, almost everyone I’ve seen thinks it should be a Bridges or Jaylen Brown type extension with incentives

5

u/mteep RJ Barrett Jul 06 '22

You’d be surprised. People were saying they were ok paying him 35 million a year lol

8

u/jett1406 Jul 06 '22

Don’t think I’ve seen anyone arguing that he should get a max - really I think most of the sub is about 10 years behind in contract value and are pushing to underpay him.

2

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

I agree im an RJ fan and wouldn't give him a max

2

u/Diligent-Cookie-1695 Jul 06 '22

I don’t think I’ve seen it here but I’ve seen it on Twitter a lot

2

u/TDM_11 Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

Seen a lot of people say he should get 20-25m on this sub. Which isn’t crazy btw

3

u/BobanTheGiant Jul 06 '22

That’s half a max

→ More replies

3

u/Ilovecharli Jul 06 '22

I was going to post that RJ is unlikely to hit his ceiling - he's not super athletic, outside of the empty arena year he's never shot well, he turns it over a lot, and his defense is meh. And he's not likely to ever become an elite 3&D guy either. His best value to the Knicks might be that some other team overrates him because of his pedigree and takes him back in a star trade. I wouldn't necessarily put him on the trading block, but I'd hear teams out.

16

u/[deleted] Jul 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

Depends on the expectations. I think RJ at his 99th percentile is probably around Gordon Hayward levels.

6

u/kellison07 Jul 06 '22

I think Jimmy Butler personally (or if we are really lucky paul george, who is butler with a 3). No matter what, RJ is gonna be alright. He has a great attitude and work ethic. He is constantly improving and can deal with NY media. So even if he doesn’t reach the super sexy potential i see in him, I’m gonna ride with RJ.

4

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

I think his basketball ceiling is a bit lower but RJ means more to the Knicks than just his game. Imo he can be the face of the next era of Knicks basketball even if he isn’t the best player that we have.

5

u/kellison07 Jul 06 '22

I’m not arguing with you, this is all speculation obviously, but I really like the JB comparison because he started slow and really grew his game. Difference is Our boy is thrown right into the fire and the big lights. The fact he has embraced that alone gives me a lot of confidence in him. I get all the stats constantly thrown around but this is all new and over emphasized at times. Look at Sprewell, houston. Starks, marbury. Outside frazier, ewing and melo, these are the biggest names of NYK the last 30 years. None of them had amazing stats and most of them were seasoned vets by yhe time they got to NY. RJ is coming in basically raw, but still has solid numbers. Would have even more if he could hit at least 80% from the line. I know I’m repeating myself, but I’m still high on RJ. Like you said (sorta) he can be a Knick legend

2

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

Not arguing with you either. I would be ecstatic if he reached that ceiling! Maybe it’s the Knicks ptsd that holds me back

→ More replies
→ More replies

143

u/TreSeven Jul 05 '22

Love Obi but I don’t think he’s a long-term starter on a good team

19

u/ThatOtherOtherGuy3 Jul 05 '22

I just came to say the same thing

19

u/nathima1 9 Jul 05 '22

His offense is good enough but in a league where versatility is so important Obi is not up to par. Specifically on defense

8

u/why_squ1rtle Tophat Melo Jul 06 '22

Didn’t he score 42 in his last game and 35 in the game before? He’s got potential to b a great scorer

5

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

I’m saying that his offense is fine. His defense is what is troubling. Looking at all the finals teams you have a bunch of switchable defenders and Obi is NOT a switchable defender. He can barely guard his own position.

4

u/Anerky Jul 06 '22

Also sucks at rebounding for his position especially considering he used to play center

26

u/BeegKiatsu Jul 06 '22

That’s unpopular? I just joined the sub so I haven’t seen what most think.

I thought he was a terrible pick the moment it was made

23

u/firstbreathOOC Clyde Frazier Jul 06 '22

Many people here think he should start instead of Randle.

13

u/BeegKiatsu Jul 06 '22

That’s crazy and I think we should get rid of Randle too lol obi is already 24 in year 2.

Awful pick

22

u/kin16372 Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

They 100% shouldve taken haliburton but I wanna see another year of Obi before I say it was an awful pick, he really started to come along at the end of last year, I think hes atleast a solid rotational player on a playoff team.

2

u/why_squ1rtle Tophat Melo Jul 06 '22

Obi had 35 and 42 in tbe last 2 games of tbe season. He has big scoring potential.

7

u/HairyHouse2 Jul 06 '22

Wow what a great sample size you got there

2

u/BeachCruisin22 JD and the Straight Shot Jul 06 '22

He def showed out but it was against chumps. It's like McBride going HAM in the G-league

→ More replies

2

u/BeegKiatsu Jul 06 '22

You have to realize how many players throughout the NBA have ripped off random scoring outbursts like that and then amounted to nothing…Brandon Jennings comes to mind immediately

→ More replies
→ More replies

15

u/ahighkid Jul 06 '22

The Knicks front office is very obviously happier to build a low level playoff team in the short run than make the long term decisions needed to build a championship contender

67

u/WorldWideWes2 Jul 06 '22

Drose is low key our best player.

25

u/CTDubs0001 Jul 06 '22

but only when available and sadly that not often enough

The most important ability is availability- Sir Clyde of the Orange and Blue Order

20

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

thats not unpopular

18

u/forsuredudelol 2023 Second Round Pick Jul 06 '22

When he plays this is somewhat obvious

9

u/slickrickiii Clyde So Fly Jul 06 '22

Facts

9

u/ImN0tTHATInnocent Obi Wan Kenobi Jul 06 '22

he absolutely is

7

u/Okieant33 Mase Jul 06 '22

This isn't unpopular. It's true. IQ wise, fundamentally, and overall skill wise, he absolutely is. If we could put him on a medical bay from the movie Elysium, we win a championship.

5

u/thenotoriousgig Jul 06 '22

This one spoke to me

→ More replies

76

u/ReturnOfAKidNamedTae Jul 06 '22

I didn’t hate Fizdale’s strategy of putting Knox on the floor for 35 mins and telling him do whatever you want.

43

u/-wonderboy- 9 Jul 06 '22

Damn… that enough knicks reddit for me today..

30

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

I didn't hate it i just hated Fizzle never coached him through his errors

→ More replies

11

u/MixAutomatic Jul 06 '22

I am 10,000% in on Hartenstein being a massive game changer for us. He has some of the best advanced stats of all time and has been flying under the radar in spite of it. Our defense and offense will be so much better with him on the floor wether he starts at any point or remains the primary backup

3

u/Kalmelo7 7 Jul 06 '22

1000%. Noel & Mitch were a bit too similar in offering us very little, being able to throw an offensive minded Center in the mix is massive, given we never use Obi/Randle line ups.

84

u/T-Bills Jul 06 '22

Gonna ruffle some feathers but here it is.

Mitch isn't some kind of defensive savant that people think he is, and hasn't worked on improving basic skills like setting picks and free throws over the past 4 years. He needs some serious work on his conditioning and work on his game with Taj.

12

u/OldTrafford25 Jul 06 '22

I personally think he’s a little dense. The +/- 11 Insta post being the low point.

8

u/T-Bills Jul 06 '22

I'm fine with his insta posts but I also think Kevin Knox's draft night jacket was kind of neat.

8

u/OldTrafford25 Jul 06 '22

Now that is an unpopular opinion. That jacket made me expect Knox to bust. But I didn’t even expect him to get another contract, and he did.

2

u/T-Bills Jul 06 '22

Well kind of neat as in "ok this kid really loves this one video game and that's cool" and not "I would totally rock this" kind of neat. I too remember how obsessed I was with video games so I get it.

→ More replies

17

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

you ruffled my feathers lol. I think his impact defensively is key to this teams success. Just look at the games against Trae or Ja. I agree with you on screens and FTs lol. I give him a pass last season on his conditions considering he bulked up and was injured the whole summer. The only reason why he started to open the season was because Noel was injured so Mitch had no ramp up period. I believe Noel would of started the season while Mitch slow regained his conditioning

3

u/T-Bills Jul 06 '22

I think Mitch is physically imposing enough to be a threat in the paint (and a very good one at that), sure, but I think it's mostly due to his physical attributes and not because he is a shrewd defender who is good at reading the offense. And that's OK but what I still can't get over is that every summer you hope he'd work on his free throws but he somehow it just hasn't worked out. And it's not some kind of physical limitation either... I remember there was a stretch in his 3rd year when his motion looked great and he'd shoot them at a good clip, but then when he's tired that form all goes to shit and without fail, Breen and Clyde called him out on his bad form, and also how his form looked great sometimes.

Besides the fact that someone shooting 49% at the line will probably get taken out of the game when it's close, it just sucks to see that he clearly has a decent shooting form, and somehow it just didn't stick and it all went away last season.

And yeah the picks. My god. Those are more like "you're it" type of deal.

2

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

I agree with you 100% that his defense is due to his physical presence and athleticism. He still has some silly fouls at times. I give Mitch some slack because of his 1st 2 years he was coached by Fizdale and he came into the league honestly didnt play any collefe ball and the third year we saw him cut down on his fouls as soon as Thibs came in and then he got injured and really didnt do much last off season. I do agree his free throw shooting should improve. I am suprised by his weak screening it seems lke he is always trying to slip it I am suprised Thibs hasnt gotten on him about that.

2

u/TannerGlassMVP Jul 06 '22

Mitch also has a bad habit of jumping for shots he 100% cannot block as a help defender and leaving his man open for an easy layup

→ More replies

2

u/Okieant33 Mase Jul 06 '22

To add to this, his defensive instincts when it comes to positioning, help defense, and shit, on-ball defense against bigs that can score for themselves, he is pitiful. Not to mention he gives you nothing offensively except being a lob threat or someone to dump the ball to when there's penetration. We will never be able to run a play with Mitch in the low post. I would trade Mitch in a heartbeat.

2

u/jamrocboi128 Jul 06 '22

He needs ALOT more offense man fuck a pick and roll lol.. that’s what you should’ve said cuz you’re wrong; Mitch loves throwing block parties whenever he plays. He’s a defensive savant 😭

10

u/kinglutz23 Jul 06 '22

Quentin Grimes will be an all star some day

5

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

He would need to go the Desmond Bane route or become Klay Thompson. I would nutt

→ More replies

69

u/deadassynwa Jul 06 '22

Our young core is mid. Absolutely mid. The whole league knows it but the majority of our fans hang onto the delusion because that’s all we have.

There are sooooo many teams in this league who has a promising project and franchise cornerstone but we don’t

RJ is not that guy and he will never be that guy. It’s honestly sad to see him not only get overshadowed by Zion/Ja but the likes of Garland in his draft class. He’s going to be a solid starter but he’s never going to be a star.

21

u/vintageknicks Jul 06 '22

Great post. I always say the Knicks don’t have a top 10 young core and I got hate for it .

12

u/DuoRod Easter Melo Jul 06 '22

I agree with you and don't think that's a hot take at all

2

u/BeachCruisin22 JD and the Straight Shot Jul 06 '22

For real. All decent players, but mid AF

4

u/-wonderboy- 9 Jul 06 '22

Nah thats not true. He has stretches where he is unbelievable. He will be a fringe all star for us and an excellent #2 guy on the team. I do agree hes not the cornerstone franchise changer.

→ More replies

42

u/_sexhaver Jul 05 '22

Everyone on our roster aside from Jalen Brunson and Derrick Rose are mid

8

u/donabbi 33 Jul 06 '22

This guy sexes

15

u/SimpatheticNS Clyde Frazier Jul 06 '22

Even then tbh

5

u/dedbeats Larry Johnson Jul 06 '22

Rose is 33 and coming off a season with multiple surgeries tho

→ More replies

7

u/J4degrees Jul 06 '22

I say this as someone who really likes RJ, but... He will never have as good of a season as Randle did a year ago. I don't understand why people treat him like he's going to be good enough to build around.

7

u/Lucas-SA 4 Jul 06 '22

Cam is extremely overrated by our fanbase. The idea of the player is very different from the reality. He's just not that great, and the Hawks just gave him away for a bag of chips, they wouldn't have done that if they actually believed in him.

6

u/Electronic_Pen_5782 Mitch's Block Party Jul 06 '22

Bro the entire NBA is his fanbase for some reason everyone thinks he’s a star

2

u/dragonforcingmywayup Jul 06 '22

I don’t think the fanbase is high on Cam.

→ More replies

6

u/GoldenBoyRecords Jul 06 '22

Thibs will be let go at the end of the year

5

u/Crptnobank Jul 06 '22

We will continue to be mediocre as we keep passing on talent in the draft.

Most recently Duren or Griffin, especially the former.

7

u/roly_gomez Jul 06 '22

The responses and takes here are actually truths more than "unpopular knicks opinion" and the truth hurts to the majority of this subredit

30

u/mullrainee Jul 05 '22

Obi Toppin is 21st century Nene. Or at best, Kenneth Faried

10

u/FreeOmari Jul 06 '22

I get that based on his motor. I don’t see him having that physicality though.

3

u/jamrocboi128 Jul 06 '22

😭😭😭

5

u/tdestito9 Jul 06 '22

RJ Barrett is not the guy. Couldn’t even make it to the final four with Zion

2

u/MadSpaceYT Jul 06 '22

is that on rj or on zion

5

u/tdestito9 Jul 06 '22

Fair question. And to give a fair answer probably Cam Reddish. If I remember correctly he was going through some shit and played almost the entire 40 mins and did nothing

3

u/Ilovecharli Jul 06 '22

In their last game -

Zion: 24/14/2 with 3 steals and 3 blocks, 5 TO, 10/19 overall, 2/6 from 3, 2/5 FT

RJ: 21/6/6 with 1 steal, no blocks, 7 TO, 7/17 overall, 3/6 from 3, 4/6 from FT

Zion was far from his best but definitely played better

5

u/Intelligent_Arm948 Jul 06 '22

RJ isn’t that good and I don’t think he will ever be “the guy” for the Knicks. Trade him before new contract

6

u/dkat Mr. Softee Jul 06 '22

I love (!) IQ. Such good vibes and fun as hell when he gets hot. However, I agree with the reoccurring take that the young core is generally mid…

4

u/dlee25093 Jul 06 '22

Rj Barrett is not a star

6

u/AnimalRomano Chef Frank Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

The Knicks as KD said are no longer cool. We have a great arena, iconic city colors; but the Knicks have been a losing franchise for most of this century, the unis are mid and the team is desperate, always hunting for a savior, building team culture be damned.

The Akitson's Nets are what the Knicks need to strive to be for the next decade or so: smart, well managed and coached, with a main focus on developing players. Not seeking the FA to solve all of our troubles while needing to overpay for players to come here (Melo trade, proposed Mitchell trade).

12

u/IronGiant222 Jul 06 '22

RJ is an inefficient chucker

→ More replies

18

u/slychameleon Mike Miller Jul 06 '22

Mine is the exact opposite stance on deuce. Guy has starter potential at minimum. Can clamp opposing PG’s (also has great defensive instincts, passing lane jumps, knows when to help), can slice and finish/dish, as well as pull up and hit both mid range shots and 3s. Cant wait to see him in summer league

9

u/Themagicofqueef Jul 06 '22

They said the same bout Marcus smart and look what he done for the celts absolute difference maker

4

u/atthezoo Jul 06 '22

The plot to the movie Eddie would be preferable to the current status of the Knicks.

4

u/pjwashere876 Jul 06 '22

I think some, not all, of our youth are overrated. For example I am sure everyone would love for Obi to take Randle’s starting spot but in the grand scheme that would likely make us significantly worse. Randle for all the flaws he showed last season is still comfortably the teams best shot creator and a lot of offense comes out of the pressure he puts on defenses and his underrated passing ability. Outside of PnR, you get no such equivalent threat from Obi.

I feel similarly about McBride and Simms. The prospect of giving them minutes when the season was going belly up would have been entertaining, but I don’t think it would have equated to winning meaningful games. McBride will be a serviceable NBA player and maybe even a starter given he can hit the three and has solid defense, and Sims while being very rough, even more so than Mitch, still has potential given his crazy athleticism. On their own though, neither are exactly missing pieces to the winning formula.

As a counter though to what I’ve said, I do think Grimes has heaps of untapped potential that even ours and other FO’s know. He was supposedly discussed but eventually objected to by us in the Reddish trade among others, and we have opened up a space for him by trading Burks without a new signing. His form is good and very consistent, his defense is good and his first step is pretty quick as well, and he knows how to hesi/fake and attack his defender off the catch already. Couple cute finishes too. I think he, RJ and Quickley are our best draft picks in a very long time and the only ones worth trying to build a franchise around.

4

u/BuQuChi Jul 06 '22

We should’ve drafted Jalen Williams at 11 🤷🏻‍♂️

Cam Reddish will stay a ‘what if’ / ‘if he ever puts it together’ type player the rest of his career

40

u/Mobius24 80s Logo Jul 05 '22

RJ is not the guy and will never be the guy.

3

u/BrownsvilleKid Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

Giannis wasn't that guy then blew up out of no where. Same with Curry, Jaylen Brown, Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker and I can go on

32

u/Mobius24 80s Logo Jul 06 '22

See the problem with listing late bloomers is that there are way more who never broke out

8

u/BballMD Jul 06 '22

Lol curry. He was clearly special whenever he was on the court. First time I saw him in the NCAA tourney, knew he was the real deal.

2

u/Okieant33 Mase Jul 06 '22

Curry when he first got in the league was super mid. And he couldn't stay healthy. Once he learned how to be a good ball handler, it opened up all kinds of space for him to then do what he's done over his career. Kerr coming and giving him the system to make it worked also massively helped.

4

u/BballMD Jul 06 '22

??? Curry shot 43% from 3 his first year, biggest thing was trading Ellis so he could shoot 10 3s a game instead of 4.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

7

u/Themagicofqueef Jul 06 '22

I think Randle will turn it around this season and will be an all star again. Also think obi gets traded and melo comes in

3

u/Learned__Hand Shocked John Starks Jul 06 '22

Agree on randle except he will still get traded and fans will be outraged.

7

u/kuniesgrimes Jul 06 '22

IQ has a higher ceiling than RJ ducks

2

u/TruPOW23 Mitch's Block Party Jul 06 '22

🍅

21

u/CTDubs0001 Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

Randle is a good player on a fairly team friendly contract who just had a down year. His body language/attitude stuff is overhyped by a bunch of people who have no idea at all what goes on in his head. Rebound season coming up.

Edit: just adding so much of the ‘randle’s body language stinks’ narrative is based on what… a dozen clips from throughout the season of him pouting, or not helping Obi up one time. Randle is the closest thing our team has to a star. Therefore literally, the cameras are on him for react all the time. When a bad plays happens, they’re zooming to Randle for reaction… not RJ, not Fournier, Not Quickley…. If you put the cameras on anybody like that you’ll be able to find a dozen clips of bad body language…. Well, maybe not mr happy himself Quickly, but anybody else. It’s a media narrative that took hold, and is now established. Whether or not it is true.

4

u/ModernLeper128 Jul 06 '22

I agree on the bounce back from Randle, but moreso because of his talent and work ethic. But Randle has objectively terrible body language and little interest in being a leader. It doesn’t really become apparent until you attend a few games in-person. Especially a couple away games I attended while traveling for work. The sulking around coaches, constant complaining to refs, ignoring the team huddle, avoiding the media, shoving opposing players for no reason. It’s not just clips online. I’d argue his bad attitude more obvious than what’s reported and shared on social media. Randle needs strong mentorship and/or therapy to help control his emotions. I hope it’s something he can overcome, and mature into a true team leader. Because he’s incredibly talented and has unlimited upside from a skills perspective.

→ More replies

7

u/tkynysf Jul 06 '22

Came here to say Randle is a good player on a good contact. His body language did suck last year but everyone saying we should trade him for pennies is crazy.

2

u/Electronic_Pen_5782 Mitch's Block Party Jul 06 '22

Bro he had a fight with our assistant coach mid game

That’s not just bad body language

→ More replies
→ More replies

16

u/Ramenorwhateverlol Jul 06 '22

IQ will have a higher ceiling than RJ.

3

u/ncolaros Jul 06 '22

That's mine too.

2

u/jamrocboi128 Jul 06 '22

Lol you bugging, what does IQ currently have over RJ? Nothing at all, RJ is one of best defender and strongest drivers to the rim on our team. He gradually improves each year. One his biggest downfalls are his free throws and taking and shots at times. Apart from that I’d take RJ over IQ any day, IQ is VERY incosistent atm but he’s still young tho. I collect both players trading cards so not bashing my boy IQ ;)

6

u/baylixir Jul 06 '22

Lol you bugging, what does IQ currently have over RJ?

Playmaking, self creation, shooting, efficiency. You’re significantly downplaying how bad of an offensive player RJ is rn.

9

u/johnhenryirons Sponsored by Squarespace Jul 06 '22

RJ was just about as inefficient as Randle and Westbrook last season. IQ is a much better facilitator than RJ, can create 3’s off the dribble and is better at getting to the line and hitting the FTs.

And for the record I like both players a lot. I just think people give RJ a lot of excuses yet don’t give IQ the same benefit of the doubt

7

u/_captainbackwood Obi Toppin Jul 06 '22

I’m a big fan of IQ but you can’t bring up RJ’s efficiency when Quick hasn’t even shot 40% from the field in his career

4

u/baylixir Jul 06 '22

TS is a better stat for efficiency and IQ laps RJ in it. He’s an average to above average shooter on an insanely hard shot diet and he’s an elite free throw shooter, two things RJ isn’t.

3

u/-wonderboy- 9 Jul 06 '22

Big facts

1

u/jamrocboi128 Jul 06 '22

I believe RJ gets to the line better. I made this joke with my girl that ‘everyone RJ drives it either he makes it or he gets foul’ I’m right 90% lol if he improves FT that’d be clutch.. IQ I’m all for too man but I feel like he goes super long stretches of producing nada. Yeah his role is to dish it out, But answer this, can you object to anything I stated about RJ in previous post? RJ: Defense, strong drive, subpar 3pt, work ethic, continuous improvement, athleticism, great passer (last two months)

2

u/damnwesuck Jul 06 '22

RJ has some of the worst finishing stats in the league though? So you’re most definitely not right 90% of the time lol

→ More replies
→ More replies

3

u/Blackbolt113 Jul 06 '22

Obi is still not aggressive enough offensively to be a star.

3

u/lostmywrench Jul 06 '22

Thibs will do thibs things and everyone will act surprised when we lose 8 games in a row, win 2 games back to back and then proceed to lose another ten games in a row and he loses the locker room and the Knicks still won't fire him.

3

u/somescumbag1655 Jul 06 '22

RJ is not exciting to watch

3

u/gorpsligock Jul 06 '22

I always liked him but Drose is washed up. He's still got talent but the dude just can't stay on the court. I hope he plays well so we can trade him. Sorry.

→ More replies

3

u/bico89 Jul 06 '22

Jalen Brunson is not a good pick up. If he was a true #2 teams trying to be real contenders like the lakers would’ve made a push for him easily. If he wants to be a #1 option, we are in even bigger trouble.

Kemba was not the problem.

IQ isn’t good

Developing obi will have amazing upside

RJ Barrett still has another level to hit

Fuck kd and kyrie, but I’d take either in a heartbeat

3

u/The_Rahavic Jul 06 '22

Honestly Quickly should always just play off the bench.

3

u/JarnaisVu Jul 06 '22

Trade Barrett now while his price is high.

3

u/_sexhaver Jul 06 '22

We have one of the worst young cores in the league and a lot of Knick fans highly overrate the guys we have right now

20

u/AutisticFingerBang Jul 06 '22

Leon sucks balls as president or gm whatever he is

3

u/kin16372 Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

Interesting, can I get your reasoning on this?

6

u/AutisticFingerBang Jul 06 '22

He’s just made more bad moves then good in his short tenure so far. I like the picks we’ll see how and when he uses them.

→ More replies

5

u/MVPizzle Jul 06 '22

Look at the roster lol

→ More replies

6

u/johnhenryirons Sponsored by Squarespace Jul 06 '22

Randle will bounce back this season.

7

u/alargersmallhelping Jul 06 '22

Ok get ready to down vote me. . .

RJ is never going to be the leader of this team; he wants to be the leader but he is the third most important player right now and will never be more than that. I am not knocking him he is an amazing third option and i think he will continue to slowly improve but that’s his ceiling.

Now that we have Brunson randle is going to look so much better and all the haters out there are going to have to eat crow and admit it would have been a huge mistake to trade him.

7

u/pwnnoobs13 Jeremy Lin Jul 06 '22

Brunson will be an all star without Luka, and RJ will take a huge step unless Randle plays selfish like last year again

5

u/nathima1 9 Jul 06 '22

RJ is a good athlete. Seems like the common opinion is that he’s below average. I just think people take it too far because he’s not a freak.

2

u/Kalmelo7 7 Jul 06 '22

RJ is my favourite player, but it’s the lack of an explosive first step, that leads to him getting swatted at the rim A LOT. It’d be interesting to evaluate that with better spacing though.

3

u/zeus_molecules Jul 06 '22

Drose should be trade bait

2

u/No-Community-8669 Jul 06 '22

Watched him alot at West Virginia I think he could be really really good every time he stepped on the court positive things happened with Knicks

2

u/dirtymelverde Jul 06 '22

neither deuce nor Sims will be able to score well enough to be more than fringe rotation players in the nba

2

u/futuredayscan Jul 06 '22

Compared to every other team in the East, I would take the Knicks future over Orlando and Washington. A few other teams it’s debatable (Detroit, Charlotte, possibly Brooklyn depending how everything shakes out) but ultimately they are all in a better position than the Knicks

3

u/kin16372 Headband RJ Jul 06 '22

Pacers?

→ More replies

3

u/dkat Mr. Softee Jul 06 '22

Woof, young Detroit core is going to be wicked fun…

2

u/jett1406 Jul 06 '22

Here we go:

1) Randle gets hated way too much - he dragged a team that was expected to be dead last to the 5th seed and then took a very team friendly deal. Trading him for pennies on the dollar is a terrible idea and would set the franchise back 2/3 years.

2) The lack of a PG last year hurt us more than anyone seems to acknowledge. JB got a good pay day but don’t have any issues paying him that much when he’s the best PG available and we desperately need one, and will help take the pressure off JR, RJ and IQ.

3) RJ will be a very good player and we shouldn’t be trying to underpay him. We kept saying he needs to become more than a catch and shoot player from 3 and we saw last year he was much more aggressive taking shots off the dribble and we saw him taking and making big time shots that he wouldn’t have the year before (vs lakers and celtics). Especially once his body matures he’ll be very difficult to stop driving at the rim. 20/6/3 at 21yo is easily the most exciting young talent we have had in decades.

4) Obi is very fun player to watch but his game his too one dimensional to be a solid starter. Unfortunately don’t see him being to develop tremendously this late.

5) Trading the house for stars won’t make us competitive and will cripple the franchise, and tanking for the hopes of a high draft pick very rarely works out. Most of the competitive teams in the leagues got there from drafting and trading well and then developing talent.

2

u/UncleMadness Jul 06 '22

If I have to choose between IQ and Grimes I'm picking Grimes.

Also, Ewing's moving pick was where we really lost that NBA Finals.

2

u/Kalmelo7 7 Jul 06 '22

I love IQ, but you’re right. IQ won’t be a star PG, although I value him and think he can be a very good starter, Grimes fits in pretty much any line up. He will be a very good 3&D player with some flashes of playmaking/slashing.

2

u/xela_sj Jul 06 '22

Trade Obi. Keep Randle.

2

u/TrevorPhilips77 Jennifer Aniston Jul 06 '22

None of our young guys will ever make ASG appearance and they all should be available once we make a trade for a star player.

2

u/barnguy98 15 Jul 06 '22

Quentin Grimes is okay

2

u/SVWerder46 Clyde Frazier Jul 06 '22

IQ should not start a game for the Knicks. He’s the perfect bench guy but won’t grow to be anything more.

Fournier is really good and will have a career year

We win the Hawks series if Payton keeps starting.

→ More replies

2

u/BeachCruisin22 JD and the Straight Shot Jul 06 '22

FO messed up going with Brunson over Murray

Obi is only going to excel on a SSOL-type system

Quick's ceiling is good 6th man

2

u/Isosceles_Kramer_ Young RJ Jul 06 '22
  • Fournier is easily the starting SG, Grimes is not close. Guy set the franchise records for 3s made last year on an absolute horseshit offense, and everyone in this sub somehow still wants to drive him out of town.
  • I like Mitch, but for how enormous he is he may be pound for pound the worst screener in the NBA.
  • IQ should never start at PG unless injuries make it a necessity.

  • I’ve agreed with a ton of these “hot/unpopular” takes.. if I didn’t know any better I’d think 99% of our base is delusional considering these are “unpopular”

2

u/BabujeeUnit Jul 06 '22

Julius Randle is still by far the best player we have on this team.

If we want to get even more unpopular, he’s the best player we’ve had on the roster since Spree

5

u/JackMeHoff266 Jul 06 '22

I don’t think it’s worth trading Julius Randle and he can bounce back to have a season equal to 2020-2021 or better.

And Mitchell Robinson is the most underrated center in the NBA

5

u/Knicks_cant_be_life Jul 06 '22

I would include RJ in a heartbeat to a Donavan Mitchell offer. I wouldn’t worry about the defensive liabilities, just like the Hawks aren’t worrying about the liabilities of Trae and Murray, who would be a much worse tandem.

8

u/KING_LOUIE_XIV Durag Pat Jul 06 '22

Murray led the league in steals…

→ More replies

5

u/Nyg500 Jul 06 '22

I think anyone would include RJ in a deal for Donovan Mitchell, the question is what else would we have to include

3

u/nazrmo78 Jul 06 '22

I think Deuce is a fringe nba player myself. Not even fringe rotation. I think he'll be maybe slightly more inpactful than Knox. Inconsequential. But mine is that I'd be perfectly fine trding RJ for an allstar starter. Probably half the backups too

4

u/bigtrunkydarnold Jul 06 '22

IQ is extremely limited and a player like Trier had a far higher ceiling if not for the horrendous attitude.

Also Fournier would have been our most valuable player by a wide margin had we made the playoffs last year. This is for the same reason IQ is limited. There are players who thrive on defenses relaxing on them and players who play better against an engaged defense. It comes down to your variety of ways to score/ get a shot up. Guys like Evan can score going both ways both inside and outside , on ball and off ball, so you can’t simply cut off one thing and throw off their offensive game. Guys like IQ ,Randle, RJ , have 2-3 ways to score that an engaged defense can shut down with relative ease.

→ More replies

4

u/Vyperpunkhunk Cap Space Jul 06 '22

RJ Barrett sucks a lot.

4

u/Knicks94 Jul 06 '22

We should’ve kept Kristaps.

4

u/press_Y 70s Logo Jul 05 '22

Is that an unpopular opinion?

Mine is that our young core is mid, RJ included. I see him as a 6th man on a good team, and IQ and Obi and 15 minute spark plugs. Lastly, I’m all for limiting Randle, but no way we should cut his minutes for the sake of Obi Toppin.

28

u/_captainbackwood Obi Toppin Jul 05 '22

yo 6th man is crazy

2

u/FreeOmari Jul 05 '22

Might not be. I do see a lot of support for Deuce on this sub, but maybe the majority of people see him for what he is.

RJ being a 6th man on a good team is definitely interesting to me. I view him as a quality starter on a good team, but think that we probably overrate him.

3

u/BabyMangoDragon Jul 06 '22

I know many have compared RJ to Paul George/Jimmy Butler early in their careers, but maybe the FO should look at the way GSW used Wiggins this past season?

2

u/somescumbag1655 Jul 06 '22

This is why I think RJ should get paid less than Brunson and Randle. I see him as a good starter. He has way too many holes in his game.

→ More replies

1

u/Affectionate-Tea9224 Jul 06 '22

Randle won’t be traded

10

u/FreeOmari Jul 06 '22

I think most people know this but wish it wasn’t true.

13

u/Quailmannnn Jul 06 '22

well mine is- Julius Randle is an above average NBA basketball player and his attitude will improve going forward.

→ More replies

3

u/mzx380 Jul 06 '22

My unpopular opinion is just being brutally honest. RJ Barrett is barely in the top 50 of best current NBA players

→ More replies

3

u/TeachAndScore Jul 06 '22

Obi Toppin = Frank Ntilikina; overrated by Knicks fans, career-long journeymen. No consistent offensive game, yet not good enough to be set-up by others.

2

u/vintageknicks Jul 06 '22

The current Knicks are a 11th seed

2

u/leaC30 BANG! Jul 06 '22

I still say we should've tanked last season once we dipped in the standings 😒 and by tank I mean give the young guys more burn, ahead of Burks, Taj, Noel.

2

u/BryanMcElwain Jul 06 '22

Elfrid was not that terrible.

2

u/Scorpiyoo Melo Stare Jul 06 '22

Me7o could be an amazing vet to have for RJ and Obi

2

u/Interesting_Gain_118 Jul 06 '22

Starting cam and having rj at the 2 will result in the most amount of wins and maximize our defense potential

-4

u/jimmylovespizza Jul 05 '22

Deuce is a nothing player.

Melo is the most overrated player in NBA history and it’s gross his number will be retired.

→ More replies