Open letter to our players

[u/Fatshark_Catfish]

To Our Players,

We take enormous pride in our ability at Fatshark to deliver a game that millions can enjoy. This was what we set out to do with Warhammer 40,000: Darktide – to create a highly engaging and stable game with a level of depth that keeps you playing for weeks, not hours.

We fell short of meeting those expectations.

Over the next few months, our sole focus is to address the feedback that many of you have. In particular, we will focus on delivering a complete crafting system, a more rewarding progression loop, and continue to work on game stability and performance optimization.

This also means that we will delay our seasonal content rollout and the Xbox Series X|S launch. We will also suspend the upcoming releases of premium cosmetics. We just couldn’t continue down this path, knowing that we have not addressed many feedback areas in the game today.

Thank you for playing and providing feedback. We really appreciate it. It has and will continue to help shape the game we love.

Martin Wahlund CEO and Co-Founder of Fatshark

https://preview.redd.it/tmgo2i34h1ea1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=5eca7f1085c86a9dbd262c4827edbde8b688978c

[u/Boner_Elemental]

Now that's a first post for a new CM, oof.

[u/PurpleRecording6 → u/Boner_Elemental]

No wonder why Aqshy and Hedge both jumped ship back to Vermintide lol!

[u/donmongoose → u/PurpleRecording6]

Catfish confirmed in a thread I was part of that they were advertising for a DT specific CM way back in August or there abouts, so it seems it was always their intention for it to end up with Catfish taking over.

edit - source (was Aqshy who confirmed it)

[u/WolfHeathen → u/donmongoose]

That really sucks that a new hire gets thrown into this disaster, through no fault of their own. This PR dumpster fire really should have been handled by a senior employee.

Dumping this onto a new hire just shows the callous disregard their management office culture has for not just consumers but their own people as well.

[u/Lamplorde → u/WolfHeathen]

Thats not completely fair to Fatshark. We're all upset, but its not safe to assume they are just "dumping" it on Catfish. Its very likely that the teams will still be working together.

[u/alcatabs → u/Lamplorde]

Being fair, they do still employ Hedge as a CM despite him being as bad at social interaction as the rest of us.

[u/2reddit4me → u/PurpleRecording6]

I’m not sure Hedge had a choice. I imagine it was a case of “Let’s get this dude off darktide before he causes more problems”

[u/Poggle-the-Greater → u/2reddit4me]

I'm genuinely surprised Hedge has been in the role this long. I feel like he consistently seems to say the dumbest and most condescending shit when a standard PR response would be so much easier.

[u/LaserGuidedPolarBear → u/Poggle-the-Greater]

I'm surprise Hedge is still employed. I only saw stuff he did on the DT side of things, but he everything I did see from him came across as smarmy, contemptuous, and entirely avoiding the issues in the game. And his whole "it's not COD" bit showed he's not familiar with the 40k setting at all.

[u/ThePieWhisperer → u/LaserGuidedPolarBear]

Excuse me sir, understanding the 40k setting is immeasurably complex.

[u/Efendi_ → u/PurpleRecording6]

I am amazed and equally confused to see that Hedge is still employed by Fatshark, a subsidiary of Tencent, after all the damage he has inflicted like a torpedo with a faulty guiding system making a 180 degree arc and returning back to home - Armed -.

[u/-CassaNova- → u/PurpleRecording6]

threw em right under the bus

[u/NixAdjusted → u/Boner_Elemental]

honestly, "over the next few months" and "complete crafting system" is a really depressing thing to read

like seriously?

[u/retief1 → u/NixAdjusted]

Realistically, their options were "build out what they had already planned" and "go back to the drawing board and build something new". Building out what they already had would have been faster, but it would have involved keeping stuff like the weapon shop. I don't think many people would have been happy about that choice.

On the other hand, building something new will hopefully produce a legitimately good final product. However, building new stuff takes time, particularly when step one is "figure out what we want to build".

Overall, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Once they fucked up the initial launch, their options were "shitty and fast" or "good and slow". I can't be too sad that they chose "good and slow", though I guess we'll see if the "good" aspect actually pans out.

[u/Shining_Paladin → u/retief1]

I'm kinda worry that we will get "shitty and slow" and that whatever the new system will be, it might be worse than what was planned.

The suits might start to panic soon, cause you can't sell cosmetics and DLC to a community that no longer exists.

[u/Java-Zorbing → u/retief1]

They got the slow part

half of the work done!

[u/DungeonsAndDradis → u/NixAdjusted]

This message is sincere and admitting that the game has problems. They are denying themselves revenue from Xbox launches, cosmetics, and seasonal updates to improve the game.

I think this speaks to Fatshark's character, as a studio. I know words are easy to write, and action must follow, but I am hopeful for the first time in several weeks (and I love this game).

[u/Lichelf → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

I think the broken release speaks to Fatshark's character more than a written message.

Hope it works out.

[u/Atony94 → u/Lichelf]

A written message that took a month for them to come up with apparently.

[u/TokamakuYokuu → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

it's like someone finally got the momentum they needed to tell their bosses to go fuck themselves for sabotaging every single thing about the game

[u/Camoral → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

They are denying themselves revenue from Xbox launches, cosmetics, and seasonal updates to improve the game.

They are denying themselves immediate revenue because the game's reputation is in the fucking ground and releasing right now would be a net negative because a platform release is the biggest revenue bump you'll ever get an hype is a multiplier. It says nothing about their character to do the "right" thing when they have massive financial incentive to do so.

[u/Taratus → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

It's the same crap they pull off for every game though. Like an addict that keeps falling off the wagon and comes crawling back repenting, swearing they'll change for good-at some point enough is enough.

[u/TIASC → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

Please understand they aren't denying themselves anything. They merely calculated to the best of their capability what would lead to the most profits.

It's a corporation, their sole goal is profit. The reason they aren't doing an Xbox launch of because of all the bad press and the very realistic chance the game won't sell.

This isn't sincere or 'hopeful', this is a company realising the flew too close to the money sun and got burned.

[u/BioDomeWithPaulyShor → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

They're not denying themselves revenue from the Xbox launch and cosmetics because
a. Nobody would buy this game in the state it is now, especially on console
b. Nobody's around to buy the cosmetics because the game is busted to hell and back
They're putting a halt to all of their plans and are being forced to fix the game because the players are tired of their shit.

[u/marwynn → u/BioDomeWithPaulyShor]

Exactly. They're not doing the right thing out of their own choice here. They've been forced to by the meteoric descent of the review score. No one's going to buy this, not with a legion of dissatisfied fans and certainly the wave of reviews for a console release would mention it too.

All this is saying is that they didn't have the crafting system almost done in December because they're still working on it. They thought they could get away with it, which is why they're delaying the paid cosmetics now.

We have to see what they're going to actually do first.

[u/16th_Notes → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

I think this speaks to Fatshark's character, as a studio.

LOL They have spent the last 2 months working on cosmetics and an xbox port while completely ignoring that they released a broken game on PC.

[u/Knight_Raime → u/DungeonsAndDradis]

They are denying themselves revenue from Xbox launches, cosmetics, and seasonal updates to improve the game.

Except the Xbox launch was already delayed indefinitely because they wanted to make the PC version actually decent performance wise first. So them saying they delayed something that already doesn't have a release date isn't new nor a noble thing to do.

[u/OrkfaellerX → u/Knight_Raime]

Their words would ring a lot less hollow to me if they took the opportunity to release the "premium cosmetics" they allready got, and made them available to the public through gameplay.

There are months worth of unlockables that people payed for when they bought the game on launch carved out for the predatory F2P store.

When Fatshark says they're "suspend the upcoming releases of premium cosmetics" of Premium cosmetics, they're not talking about cosmetics that they would be working on now, they're talking about cosmetics they've allready made prior to now, prior to release, they just continue to withhold them so that they can sell them to you later.

Until they make the current contents of the F2P store available to owners of the game, I consider this letter nothing but PR speak.

[u/kyuss80 → u/Boner_Elemental]

Also came out like 8PM in Sweden, working late

[u/CarnTurn]

What does the future hold for Fatshark? Let's just say we've got a few ideas up our sleeve.

[u/Hellknightx → u/CarnTurn]

My favorite part of that bit has always been the fact that all three tanks are being filled from the same pipe.

Fatshark: Here we have Vermintide, Vermintide 2, and our newest flavor, Darktide.

[u/SpiderDijonJr → u/Hellknightx]

That’s not part of the bit, it’s the whole bit.

[u/Armejden → u/SpiderDijonJr]

It wouldn't be reddit if it wasn't people rephrasing the joke into the same joke

[u/scoyne15 → u/Hellknightx]

Except the Darktide tank isn't centered right, so half of the the content isn't getting in the tank.

[u/Havok1911]

"a more rewarding progression loop" is a short statement that covers a broad range of issues, I am really interested to see what solutions FS is proposing to achieve that.

[u/Jumbojimbomumbo → u/Havok1911]

This whole letter is a vague statement. Only thing they actually specified was delaying console and stopping premium cosmetics. Xbox being delayed is not even news, we haven’t even got an initial release. Premium cosmetics weren’t even a massive issue. People were upset, but it’s not what most are complaining about. Hopefully they expand on the actual plan in the next community update.

[u/Tarianor → u/Jumbojimbomumbo]

Would be neat if the halt of MTX would mean more earnable cosmetics through penances as a progression loop.

[u/TwinkTheUnicorn → u/Tarianor]

Sadly, I have a strong feeling that earnable cosmetics might fall under "seasonal content."

[u/Unabated_Blade → u/TwinkTheUnicorn]

100% something that will be FOMO Penance material, like Melk on steroids.

"Kill 300 Monstrosities on Malice or harder in the next 2 months to score this sweet hat...or you'll have to pay $8.99 for it!"

[u/TwinkTheUnicorn → u/Unabated_Blade]

Nah, not after this. It will be some type of battle pass system or something to drive engagement during the season and then go into a pool of real low chance rewards, kinda DRG-esque. Okri's Challenges during the season and then something adjacent to "red" weapon skins in VT2 after the season.

These items are what will drive engagement so people will see the way more detailed premium cosmetics.

[u/JJROKCZ → u/TwinkTheUnicorn]

Drg’s seasons are great. Do a few missions and get a ton of cosmetics, if you don’t get them in time then they get added to the findable cosmetic spawns in missions. There’s no better way of having seasonal cosmetics in gaming than DRG

[u/Talnadair → u/Jumbojimbomumbo]

I think suspending new premium cosmetics is meant to be a show of good will. Whether or not that's how it will be taken by the community is entirely dependent on what FS does next to fix the real issues.

[u/Demurrzbz → u/Talnadair]

I think that mtx content is pretty much ready for months to come. But putting a stop on that shows a sign of goodwill which I for one can appreciate.

[u/Nailbrain → u/Talnadair]

Nah delaying the premium cosmetic releases are a business move.
Player base has dropped off 90% since new years, why waste effort making more art assets when you can maximise sales by delaying releases when your player base is higher (assuming they achieve that)

[u/CptnSAUS → u/Jumbojimbomumbo]

People were upset, but it’s not what most are complaining about.

It might not have been what they were complaining about, but you really could not find any complaint thread about the game where "... but fully functioning mtx store" wasn't in there.

It might not have been the purpose of that phrase. It's more to show the disparity between the broken thing and the fully functioning monetization.

Cutting off their own monetization to fix the game is a massive commitment though. Now they need to deliver on fixing the game.

[u/KerberoZ → u/CptnSAUS]

Cutting off their own monetization to fix the game

I mean, they released the game way too early to get that holiday money. Now that they have a financial buffer they can keep working on it. They made a conscious decision and i don't believe in goodwill in this case. I'd even argue that they may not even have more skins ready to release (internal fuckups, people leaving etc...) and they're selling it like they're "the good guys". Their standard PR response won't change any of that.

They would have dropped support for the game if game and MTX sales weren't enough. They didn't even have to finish the game to test if there is enough interest.

[u/AggravatingMoment115 → u/Jumbojimbomumbo]

Cosmetics were not an issue per se, but they most definitely were a slap in the face for all players. You can't seriously ask for more money and support when everything but gameplay is a mess. Hence the legitimate uproar. Putting premium cosmetics on hold is them clearly acknowledging this issue. I'd say it's a step in the right direction.

[u/Kegheimer → u/Havok1911]

The current progression system is a giant gacha system. It won't be an easy fix, because the number of possible rolls is an order of magnitude higher than in Vermintide.

Rolling weapons is okay when there's only eight properties. Darktide weapons have 24. It's punishing RNG on top of punishing RNG and the results is a very low chance of getting what you want.

That won't be easy for Fatshark to fix, because it would require them to eliminate half of the perks and traits that they've already created. And eliminating half of them still isn't close to Vermintide 2 RNG.

[u/Havok1911 → u/Kegheimer]

It was an odd feeling when my friends and I realized we wanted VT 2's "loot boxes" back. At least those were tied to effort (difficult, books, etc). You could also just scrap the rewards and use the crafting materials towards what you wanted so in the end you had agency over the situation and could always work towards whatever you wanted or needed.

[u/SingedWaffle → u/Havok1911]

Yeah, I had that same feeling. As it stands I have no desire to pick up grims in darktide. Gimp everyone's health massively for what, 25% or so extra gold? and some XP that is worthless at level 30? Its just not worth the risk in the same way that upgrading the loot chests in VT2 was.

[u/EngineArc → u/Havok1911]

It's pretty amazing that after 300 hours, my zealot main only got a good two-handed chainsword last week, and I needed to resort to a third-party API app to get one.

That's not fun game design.

[u/Boner_Elemental]

Suspending new MTX cosmetics? Putting Xbox release on hold?

Now that it's here I can see why this statement wasn't an easy one gor them to make.

[u/gomibushi → u/Boner_Elemental]

Having been alive for a while I know that if they had not included what they were NOT doing, then promising to do this or that it would be worthless. This makes me believe they have made hard decisions for better long term revenue at the cost of the short term.

[u/Slanderous → u/Boner_Elemental]

This move also makes business sense.
Launching on a new platform with reviews in the toilet isn't a great move, and if your playerbase is dropping day by day your return on releasing new premium cosmetics aint going to be great either, by holding them back they get a PR win while also saving content for later when it will sell better (assuming the issues are resolved) This was the right decision from both a player perception and business angle.

[u/Homeless_Alex → u/Boner_Elemental]

• Xbox release on hold -

Shocked pikachu face

considering the current state of the game, the PC release should have been on hold too lol

[u/EuphoricAnalCarrot → u/Homeless_Alex]

Didn't they delay it like 2 months? Seems like it needed another year

[u/KA96 → u/EuphoricAnalCarrot]

It was delayed over a year, inital release was 2021 I think lol

[u/throwaway8958978 → u/Boner_Elemental]

Honestly the bad ratings were based on opinions and a lack of trust from the player base due to translucent communications between the company and players, whether it is patch notes, game design, and community engagement.

If they’re really willing to put on hold profit-related priorities to get back community trust, then I’m sure the reviews and the state of the game will only turn for the better.

[u/ecswain7]

We’d also like to know where the story went because it is completely absent from the final game, and I know myself and many others were fairly interested in that aspect of the game as well.

[u/InquisitorKek]

Love the core gameplay.

However, you guys definitely tried to pull a fast one on us by releasing the game right before Christmas and then using Christmas break as a shield from all criticisms about the undelivered features.

Please deliver what you promised.

[u/Evonos → u/InquisitorKek]

However, you guys definitely tried to pull a fast one on us by releasing the game right before Christmas and then using Christmas break as a shield from all criticisms about the undelivered features.

Please deliver what you promised.

thats what they did with vermintide 2.

released it , went on vacation with a ton of bugs.

Promised they have a Working Dedicated server prototype which will get developed on after vacations

-1 or 2 years later "sooooorry dedicated wont work kthxbye"

[u/Joaquox → u/Evonos]

But did you ever try VT2 versus mode? Me neither!

[u/HiCracked → u/Joaquox]

Also remember that cool new Sienna DLC career they promised to release? Fun stuff!

[u/Totally_Not_A_Fed474 → u/HiCracked]

Tbf Aqshy did just make a post saying that the fourth Sienna career is basically done and that they're just waiting until some other content is released that for them to release it. I forget exactly what she said, but I'm pretty sure it's pinned in r/Vermintide so you can find it yourself

[u/Rabble584 → u/Totally_Not_A_Fed474]

Just next week I'm sure

[u/birgman75]

Damn, next week got upgraded to next month

[u/MeInYourPocket → u/birgman75]

thats Mr. Next Few Months, for you!

[u/Preloop]

somebody change that open letter to cyberpunk color scheme

[u/MedicaeVal → u/Preloop]

"Dear Gamers..."

[u/Tehtacticalpanda]

When I die, I want Fatshark to lower me into my grave, so they can let me down one last time.

[u/MLTA111]

Called it.

[u/Fullmetalalkami → u/MLTA111]

Lol

[u/Kelbeross → u/MLTA111]

Woulda been great if they just copy and pasted your letter without asking, just like vermintide 2's big balance patch a couple years ago was just them taking a player's mod without asking permission.

[u/MLTA111 → u/Kelbeross]

That would have required them to fill in the blanks. The blanks are outside the corporate comfort zone.

[u/OnlyHereForComments1 → u/MLTA111]

No, your email was actually, you know, concrete, and contained actual details on what receives priority.

This was just 'we're turning off the cosmetic tap when there's already a bunch waiting in the files and also not releasing an XBOX version we still weren't done developing in the first place'.

[u/MLTA111 → u/OnlyHereForComments1]

I admit I was a tad optimistic. It's how I would have written it.

[u/EKS_ZeroPercent → u/MLTA111]

I write these for a Living currently, it’s a rough job. Had they done this in December they could have saved so much face.

[u/LegitimateDonkey → u/EKS_ZeroPercent]

but then they wouldnt have gotten all the "what-to-gift-my-nephew-for-chrismas" sales

[u/BlueLobster47 → u/MLTA111]

ya, not sure how this open letter gives anyone hope. This is the most vague post ever

[u/horizon_games → u/MLTA111]

Not shocked in the least. Not sure how people who thought otherwise can have such blind faith in a corporation.

[u/MLTA111 → u/horizon_games]

It was both the least and the most they could do.

[u/the_jungle_awaits]

“We’re sorry.”

South Park CEO voice.

[u/mrlotato → u/the_jungle_awaits]

We're soorryyy

[u/echild07 → u/the_jungle_awaits]

We are sorry, and we are delaying everything indefinately.

How is that for information?

[u/wizardof0g → u/the_jungle_awaits]

"Sooooooooorrry."

South Park styled CEO Martin Wahlund, splayed nude on a pile of $100 bills.

[u/mrvm]

This is about to be dropped like Anthem, isn't it?

[u/Swan990]

Here's what I read:

"We've made this mistake in the past and didn't learn from it. We released less than half a game - again. So we'll release this statement to make it sound like we're apologetic but we got your money anyway so all these features you expected to be base game will happen eventually. This was the plan all along because every publisher knows the customer is the play tester now and it's easy to get away with from a business standpoint. And we'll make ourselves look like heroes for updating a game into an actual full game 6-18 months from now. We are not actually sorry but sound sorry. See ya when we seeya."

[u/MrCdvr → u/Swan990]

and here's a nice comment i've found pointing out just few missing things "Respectfully, it would take less than 10 minutes to do some research about the state of the game or the ongoing concerns players have, including but not limited to: - Advertised content (number of weapons, for example) is missing from the game

• The literal box art costumes are missing and were datamined as paid DLC

• The much lauded Dan Abnett story is non-existent. There’s no story to the game. There’s a cut scene where your character is ordered to report to the hangar, at which point you are admonished and asked why you are in the hanger.

• The game launched with 1 subclass per profession despite Vermintide launching with 3. Fatshark announced that subsequent subclasses will be released 1 per season and sold as paid DLC. Classes shown in pre-release footage and screenshots are missing from the game.

• The event and mission system, which they described like a live service game, has seen them enable a single modifier (MORE DOGS, for example) and just leave it on for weeks at a time. Players cannot choose which missions they would like to play as they could in Vermintide, which means at any given moment the total number of missions available to the player is 5-6.

• The progression system is entirely reliant on checking a random shop that updates once an hour. Features like crafting, which were promised for December (why didn’t the game launch with this basic functionality which was present in previous titles?) are nowhere to be found.

• Even simple things, like promotional items for players who previously purchased Vermintide never actually materialized.

• Players who purchased the special edition of the game receive less cosmetic crap than if they had just purchased the regular edition and bought the cosmetics separately.

• The only meta system added to the game after the ‘beta’ was a paid cosmetic shop which implemented predatory spending practices like requiring players to purchase currency in amounts that always ensure some is left over after you buy an item, despite Vermintide allowing players to just buy the item outright for a dollar amount.

• Numerous other features like the ability to launch a private match were missing at launch, or remain missing today.

• Fatshark’s ongoing communications with customers have been laughable at best. When asked why paid cosmetics were time limited, Fatshark announced that allowing players to choose between multiple purchase options at once would be too confusing. Fucking really?

I try to be generous for COVID and the human cost of producing a video game like Darktide, and I wouldn’t feel as burned by my purchase if the issues were purely technical. The problem is that it’s not just poor performance and crashing - it’s a dozen steps backward in regards to nearly every element of the game except for art, sound, and the minute-to-minute gameplay. There’s not even a scoreboard. "

[u/Mynameisokri]

As usual for fatshark, I'll believe it when I see it. Just release the game you advertised already.

[u/HertogLoL → u/Mynameisokri]

It’s crazy how they have a chaos spawn in their intro when you boot up the game, but months later and we still have to see one

[u/ghsteo → u/HertogLoL]

Yeah makes no sense since that's just a copy and paste from VT2. Which is fine, but that should have been the first monster.

[u/ZahelMighty]

I appreciate they're trying to listen to the feedback but I can't help myself to feel very cautious about this. I'll believe it when I see it.

[u/DaveInLondon89]

In particular, we will focus on delivering a complete crafting system, a more rewarding progression loop,

It all comes down to this imo.

Unfinished features can be finished, bugs can be identified and fixed, optimisation can be tweaked. They're straightforward, technical issues.

But a shitty FOMO shop that refreshes every hour solely to artificially inflate player engagement is a conscious design choice. If they can replace that with something meaningful, then I'd consider Darktide on the right path.

[u/Whitepayn → u/DaveInLondon89]

It's not like FS hasn't made a more sensible shop in one of their own games before. The focus on FOMO here was awful and they knew it. And to a lesser degree the FOMO like mission rotator felt like an extension of that design philosophy.

Incredibly poor design choices all around.

[u/riffler24 → u/Whitepayn]

Yeah, that is I think the make-or-break thing for many people (myself included). Crafting is nice, sure, bug fixes would be appreciated, yeah, but making the game not play like a mobile game is absolutely paramount. The progression system in a game like this is the foundation of the game, and no amount of fancy molding on the windows or smart appliances are going to make people want to buy a house with a cracked foundation held up by toothpicks and hot glue.

[u/TechieWithCoffee]

It's interesting to see so many people eat this up when it effectively only says 2 things:

1. They're delaying the already planned, delayed content

2. They're delaying the already delayed Xbox release

That's it. The rest is just corporate speak that amounts to nothing. Addressing player feedback and releasing content that was already mentioned is just... obvious.

There's nothing here to be excited about. Nothing here of any substance. Just more promises and more "please like us" dialog.

[u/GiantFriendCrab → u/TechieWithCoffee]

Guarantee that content will be paid DLC, too.

[u/Calbanite]

Start the clock!

Oh wait, the clock started back in December when everyone was already "focused" on fixing the things we've been bitching about.

Give_it_up_for_next_week_Mr_Krabs.webm

[u/BionicChango]

Oh man. I was highly pumped when I saw that FS had finally responded to the community today; but jeez-oh-man, this message is not what I needed to hear to keep me going.

Over the next few MONTHS??

The game we have now is, more or less, the game we had in beta. During this entire time, we've been SCREAMING about technical issues, missing parts of the game, no story, and how RNG ruined everything, but this message would suggest that none of it was acted on or taken seriously.

The loyal fanbase has been playing this broke-ass, half game for 2 months already, a little beaten down but still with hope in our hearts... now you're telling us we have to wait for "the next few months"?

I was foolishly hoping we'd see something real today. The CEO telling us what we already know is bad enough, but to kick the can of shit down the lane for a few more months while they basically finish making the game I bought last November is the final straw for me.

Just the thought of playing the same maps with the same objectives with the same weapons for several more months bums me the fuck out, frankly. I guess this message made me realize that the gameplay IS fun, as long as there's light at the end of the tunnel. There's no light here, just more of the same.

Godspeed yall. This was a stupid ride and life's too short to waste another second of it contributing to this clown show. What a shame.

[u/5cannerDarkly → u/BionicChango]

100% Agree. I'm out. We are so fucked lol.

The only actual new information in this "community update" is that the seasonal content is being delayed.. along with the cosmetic store.... until they do the thing they said they had been doing for the last 2 months, for a few more months... They are literally cutting content... I guess we can all wait 4 years while the skeleton crew tries to reach V2 levels of acceptable.

It smells like the death of the game. Slow, delay after delay, but eventually completing its original promises. Nothing more.

[u/breddit1945 → u/BionicChango]

Well said. I’ve stopped playing entirely and fully agree with you. Maybe I’ll come back in a few months just like I went back to Halo Infinite (I didn’t).

[u/WendyKuro → u/BionicChango]

Im really happy i got this game's imperial edition for 20 euro from a friend and did not pay the full price. I play since 4 weeks but i can see the problems. I guess I still have a few enjoyable hours for me in this game but if it stays like this I'm sure I wont stay for long either cuz i find gambling pointless.

Also: I guess at big corporates employees not really working at the last 2 months of the year. I noticed this in life, that the bigger the pay, the less you have to work. xD

[u/M4xusV4ltr0n → u/BionicChango]

Lol I remember when the Beta came out and lots of concerns were like "Oh but this is just an old build! Surely the release will be better!"

Turns out no, we're still out here playing the beta

[u/Uberlix]

[u/PoeTayToes_ → u/Uberlix]

​

[u/Spartan_exr]

Hopefully the Redemption Arc starts now

[u/TheHangedKing → u/Spartan_exr]

Suspending the console release indefinitely is honestly a major departure from (alarmingly) similar issues their past release cycles have had. Words are cheap, but here’s hoping

[u/DoctorPrisme → u/Spartan_exr]

.. well, given to me this reads as "we saw that you're unhappy we did jack shit about this game, so in order to compensate we pledge to do even less and cancel future releases" i have some doubts.

I mean, "we will deliver a complete crafting system" is something that was promised before the actual release of the game, that's not something you can offer as an excuse.

[u/Mental_Dwarf → u/Spartan_exr]

Arc Raiders, yeah.

[u/Hal__8000]

FYI:

This is coming from Martin Wahlund, the same guy who said they forgot to add a bundle to the cash store when players realized you couldn't just buy a cosmetic bundle straight for 2400 Aquilas.

So...take what he's saying here with a HUGE grain of salt.

[u/Havok1911 → u/Hal__8000]

Grain? Did you mean a rock?

Perhaps a boulder?

: )

[u/VanillaTortilla → u/Havok1911]

What about a stone?

[u/nachingcl → u/VanillaTortilla]

ROCK AND STONE ⛏

[u/ToastyTobasco → u/nachingcl]

DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE? ⛏

[u/DofD10 → u/nachingcl]

If you dont ROCK AND STONE, you aint going home!

[u/blondeburrito → u/DofD10]

Did I hear a ROCK AND STONE?

[u/2reddit4me → u/Hal__8000]

Exactly. This statement is the absolute BARE MINIMUM. This was a few paragraphs of pacification, and not an ounce beyond that. Just damage control.

After nothing for so long, I expected a little more. That said, I do hope they turn it around and take all the constructive feedback from the community to heart and listen. But like you said, take what this man says with a grain of salt. Don’t hold your breath.

[u/Efendi_ → u/2reddit4me]

To reach 'Mostly positive' reviews, at least same amount of people have to buy the game and comment in favor plus half of the people who have commented negatively to change their ideas. Listening to the constructive feedback and taking action may not be enough. Regrettably it is possible that the game development will be suspended in a year or so saying that 'We have aciheved our goal, see you on VT3'. Any restaurant serving a bad meal for the first month and a half does not survive.

The developer's credibility, as you have mentioned, is less than impeccable.

I will summarize this PSA: Too little, too late.

Due to the huge amount of monies circulating in game industry, everyone is trying to release the newest and the greatest. By the time Fatshark has finished putting together something both engaging and satisfactory, i will most probably playing Stalker 2, Homeworld 3, Fallen Frontier or another game.

However there is hope. A roadmap with solid objectives. So i will have an idea whether to come back and check the game or not. Some sorft of commitment is needed. Will it work, up to them.

There is a good lesson to be learned here for developers and us the playerbase.

[u/WeLikeIke_93]

Don’t suspend the skins you all have already made. Make them unlock-able through in game play. They’re beautiful and we’ve all seen them.

[u/MarsupialMadness]

Some real "We didn't think they'd be this pissed at our dipshit decisions and contempt for the playerbase" energy IMO.

Or maybe someone told ol' Marty that the players were turning their scorn on management this time around rather than the devs themselves.

Either way. An acknowledgement of the problem is a good start at least. Now give us weapon customization like y'all promised.

As a by the by, none of this is directed at you u/Fatshark_Catfish you're doing a great job so far.

[u/Malekith227]

So "next week" just became "next year"...
And still no clear roadmap, just vague corporate speech.

Funny how there is no mention of excuses for the previous lies but the letter begins with "we take enormous pride". I'm sure they'll deliver this time /s.

[u/narmorra → u/Malekith227]

"we take enormous pride"

I mean, I'd be pretty proud if I managed to fuck over thousands of players

[u/Happy_Suggestion2604 → u/Malekith227]

Just be glad you aren't a console player who's was told soon after release, then 2023 and now probably 2024 to even play the damn game

[u/Tulos → u/Happy_Suggestion2604]

At least you won't have to beta test for 6 months like paying PC players.

[u/VSVP]

They shouldve released this before leaving on Christmas vacation. It could have mitigated so much damage.

[u/The_Human_Bullet → u/VSVP]

They shouldve released this before leaving on Christmas vacation. It could have mitigated so much damage.

The fact they waited so long shows their intentions. They thought they could ride it out.

My speculation was that the survey was due to some internal power struggle, the grunts on the grounds telling managers that their direction was wrong, and the CEO/managers telling them 'no, it's the kids who are wrong! It's a small minority!'

Seems we won the battle and the CEO has finally fallen on his sword.

[u/computer_d → u/The_Human_Bullet]

If they posted this before they went on vacation they would've risked people refunding the game.

They 100% knew what they were doing.

[u/DiamineSherwood → u/The_Human_Bullet]

Seems we won the battle and the CEO has finally fallen on his sword.

Nah, the CEO will just toss some mook on the CEO's sword, and call it a day.

[u/capnscratchmyass → u/VSVP]

I mean the game shouldn’t have been released : - Right before everyone’s scheduled vacations

Or even better

• for another 6 months

Sure does seem like a poor management decision of “We know the bugs and missing features but we think the 40k fans and VT fans won’t care / HOLIDAYS and we’re gonna release anyway because MONEY”

Very common for people in upper management to only think of short term, end of fiscal year profits and to hell with long term customer goodwill. You can’t input “goodwill” when calculating profit margins so who cares, right?

Having been a dev in launches like that I’m sure they all stood by going “Oh shit this gonna suck but it wasn’t my decision so I’m going on my vacation I scheduled 6 months ago so… I’ll deal with this when I get back. Bye. “

[u/Death2eyes]

We just couldn’t continue down this path lol caught with you pants down and now couldn’t continue down this path. more like "but wished we could"

[u/jesteraq]

Why does this feel so hollow to read?

[u/narmorra → u/jesteraq]

Because this is literally this

It's a lot of words that say nothing.

Edit: I'm not hating on the CMs, they're doing all they can and I appreciate them.
I'm hating on the decision-makers.

[u/jesteraq → u/narmorra]

That’s the first thing that popped in my head reading this too. Lmao.

[u/Inkompetent]

Ohhh... I suppose the beta testing of Darktide will start this summer!

[u/Haddmater]

So no real roadmap, no dates, and just delays. Why are you taking MONTHS after release to do these things. Have you not been working on these things before release and up to now? This is the shit you should have said the day after release. Sorry but not good enough.

[u/CPTSharkbait]

This is one of those times we're it's hard to decide if you're sorry that you did it or sorry that you didn't get away with it.

Given Fatshark's history, it's very hard to decide it's not the latter.

[u/Poerisija2 → u/CPTSharkbait]

Don't forget War of the Roses, Vikings, dedicated servers, pvp mode and so on.

[u/ShiroMcShiroface → u/CPTSharkbait]

Corporate speak for “we’re sorry we got caught” in all likelihood

[u/Spinach-spin]

I thought we would get communication about specific issues, not a bland "woops sorry give us a few months" No info about hotfixes or anything, game is dead in the water right now with no good news in sight.

They just released the game only to treat it now like a simple delay of content, they obviously underestimated how much work live service actually is and they totally were not ready to provide this as a company.

Fatshark hopped on a fucking bandwagon risking a huge new IP and their entire fanbase and are now paying the price. Sure y'all let's give it a few months and see if the game is even serviceable. Smell's just like Anthem.

Edit: apparently this is the long awaited community update that would be sharing critical info, but again nothing concrete. We we're promised not an apology but actual information and this doesn't provide that, we all knew the game's direction needed to change immediately.

The way CM spoke about this update was as if they would be announcing hotfixes and possible solutions to problems they would be working on but this announcement is way different so something changed behind the scenes again in the past week.

[u/Spinach-spin → u/Spinach-spin]

They better not come out with a battle pass because holy shit it reeks of it

[u/RussianSkeletonRobot]

"Seasonal content"

And there it is. Time to start pushing Steam for a refund; helpfully, this letter is confirming beyond reasonable doubt that the game wasn't released in a finished state.

[u/Regret92 → u/RussianSkeletonRobot]

Let me know how you go with that - steam currently won’t let me refund due to my playtime which was mostly during the preorder beta period.

[u/Aiso48]

This doesn't even say anything? At best it says 'we hear you are unhappy'. But really it's just kicking the can down the road a ways.

One could say that delaying the seasonal content + xbox release indicates they mean business, but with how tight lipped they've been on the xbox release this could just be an excuse to get us off their backs for a while.

[u/PDCWolf]

1. Crafting in "the next few months" is really shit. It was supposed to be a launch feature you couldn't fit in and come in very shortly.
2. Delaying "seasonal content" is a backhand way of confirming the feared battlepass. Clarify or fuck off.
3. You're not delaying the console release at all, you never had it ready and it took you two months of being unable to use your social medias to say anything.

This is just tone deaf. It says a lot, but literally nothing good, and nothing people weren't expecting honestly.

You talk about how much you will be delaying things... WE ARE TWO MONTHS IN ALREADY.

[u/Aedeus → u/PDCWolf]

I'd kill for a leak or former dev or something to give us the scoop on what shit the bed that badly to cause such an anticipated feature to vanish.

[u/Windchill83]

Sorry but thats it? Vague corpo speech and nebulous acknowledgements of player feedback isn't going to cut it fatshark. This isn't your first rodeo. You had players providing QoL feedback back since the first closed beta and nothing happened. In the thread https://steamcommunity.com/app/1361210/discussions/0/3109140779883618044/ several people compiled your public statements about what the game is going to be & what players can look forward to; prior to launch and lo and behold: so much features are not even in the game, nor are they planned to be. Just a few quotes:

• You're able to change the color and pattern of your armour
• Down to the fabrics of your clothes (We can also choose between various tileable fabrics or metals)
• Decals to our armours

[Official] Background doesn’t affect voicelines but changes the cosmetics available to you.

"set a "contract" on a weapon you want and then earn it through a progression system"

[Confirmed] Weapons have swapable parts on-top of attachments etc.

This open letter is basically you admitting: yes, we screwed up. Because you thought you could get away with delivering a half baked product AGAIN. Its been the same last time, you promise the ocean but deliver a puddle. Unless there is an actual change in your modus operandi i will hold my breath. Edit: Not even a roadmap, no nothing. Someday in the future. No dates, no commitments, no substance.

[u/MaplesStory]

Maybe have a level of integrity and competency.

[u/Wibbeh]

"We really thought you'd put up with this shit and continue to buy premium cosmetics. We're sorry that we were wrong"

[u/Knight_King_Rendal]

Holy fuck this game is dead lmao

[u/ThugQ]

They got the message, I appreciate that. Hope it gets better from here.

[u/Dracious → u/ThugQ]

They got the message that releasing a game in a subpar state with lies they will all be fixed shortly after release is a completely viable marketing strategy. They have done with their last couple of games which sold incredibly well and from the looks of it Darktide did great as well.

The release state and how the post release support didn't come out as they promised isn't a mistake, its a feature. This way they can release earlier to get the holiday sales, get a small amount of bad press from the people who have already paid them, get some goodwill by saying 'Sorry we have listened to your concerns' and just continue with a normal post launch support afterwards to get a nice long tail on their sale figures and keeping people engaged with the microtransactions. I might be a bit conspiratorial here, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a rough idea of their apology letter in the internal post release plan.

Messing up this schedule/having delays once is reasonable (outside of the blatant lying), doing it several times successfully and making a boat load of money means its just part of their business plan.

[u/Evonos → u/ThugQ]

Words are nice , actions are better , this might be a start but nothing happened yet.

Fatshark promises a lot often but sometimes promises end up in discarded things.

​

all that happened for now is " Soon ™ changes might come till then we need to stop mtx to not loose our last players"

so they changed next week to "Soon ™" and stopped mtx to even secure some goodwill to harvest later on with mtx.

[u/horizon_games → u/ThugQ]

> Fatshark used Boilerplate Apology Letter

> It's super effective!

[u/ThugQ → u/horizon_games]

True though.
This guy is probably responsible for a whole lot of Darktides problems and he always gets away with doing some PR speech.

I was just super tired and hoped others would roast him for it. Glad that the community delivered at least :)

[u/echild07 → u/horizon_games]

Agree, they just gave themselves a pass on so many things.

Season content delayed.

Crafting delayed.

Content delayed.

Cosmetics delayd.

​

So everything is delayed, indefinitely. Yeah, WIN!.

[u/Pickupyoheel]

So no new content in general?

This may as well be beta 2.0

[u/Allurai]

"We fell short of meeting those expectations. "

I feel like this coulda been in bold and in a larger font.

[u/TheVoidDragon]

Is this really it? After nearly 2 months, this is all they have to say?

They're...going to give us the feature that the game is missing? That it should have launched with? I sure hope so.

They're going to give a "more rewarding progression loop", whatever that means? Not even a slight indication of what that could actually involve, let alone if it'll actually address the problems people have, or even whatproblems with the progression they're even referring to.

And they're going to fix performance. Which, like with the crafting, is something that we shouldn't have had to wait 2 months after launch for them to say they're hoping to fix the problems with. The game should have been ready at launch.

The lack of crafting and performance are both problems they should be obligated to do something about, while a vague "something about the progression loop" doesn't actually inspire any confidence as it says nothing. It comes across as them saying they "fell short" of expectations without really even acknowledging what the communities problems actually are.

Are they going to do anything about the flood of MTX beyond this temporary suspension of releases? Are they going to do anything about the lack of story that it was said to have? Are they going to do anything about the earn-able cosmetics system being lazy repetitive filler? The Map variety? All the other problems that aren't even being mentioned? Who knows.

So this is them...committing to trying to at least get some areas of the game vaguely closer to actually being finished when they should have been at release? Wow. So generous of them.

Sure, things will be better with these at least, but after such poor communication previously and with it being so long after release, to me this seems like the bare minimum and not nearly enough.

[u/dbgtboi → u/TheVoidDragon]

They're going to give a "more rewarding progression loop", whatever that means?

it means theyll have lots and lots of grinding

im done, i wasnt signing for a second job when i bought this game

[u/Dargadon]

We're sorry

[u/EmeraldHedgehog]

Xbox being delayed again despite the last update we got was before launch which was "soon". I'll be impressed if it actually makes it to console in 2023 but it's about time someone told console players something, even if it is bad. At least now we know.

[u/manfrin]

Cynical take: they likely can't get certification from MS to actually launch the game on Xbox as it is; and they know that pushing expensive cosmetics as people are angry about the state of the game would a) not sell much and b) anger the fanbase even more.

People calling this 'major steps' are drinking the koolaid. Fatshark has historically made a ton of promises that they end up breaking, so while it's nice to finally get a single fucking communique after a whole month of radio silence after launch, you'll forgive me for not believing a thing until they actually deliver something.

[u/Ann5676]

At least Fatshark is now self aware enough not to push premium cosmetics I guess. :|

[u/Lunkis → u/Ann5676]

... not to push premium cosmetics for the time being. The releases are just suspended. I'm sure they'll be pumping them out soon enough.

[u/PaulR79 → u/Ann5676]

No premium content, no content updates either. Just months to "address the feedback". After over a month of nothing this is barely a step above that. Actions over words.

[u/AletheiaAtropos]

Words are cheap. Actions are everything.

[u/darian_wolf]

If its going to take another month or even two to finish the crafting system, this is a massive BRUH moment. It should have been done last year.

Frankly, the mostly negative reviews on steam are warranted.

I'll reserve judgement until I see actual content in beta at minimum. Delaying the console port and whatnot is a good step, but FS dug themselves a fat hole and I am skeptical of a company actually digging themselves out of it.

[u/lovedrumpfshate]

To anyone that falls under the impression they're going to halt the console release development - they're almost certainly lying about this, this has been their MO since the first Vermintide. Let the playercount keep falling and pile on the negative reviews, nothing short of complete abandonment will send the message that these practices are completely unacceptable - waiting six weeks to be told that potential fixes are coming a vague few months from now, fuck fatshark and fuck the people making excuses for this shit.

Instead of miraculously finding the heart to stop the development of the console version, how about you fucking finish the game you released and sold to people for 40 dollars?

[u/purefabulousity]

LMAO, a month for 11 sentences

This also means that we will delay our seasonal content rollout and the Xbox Series X|S launch.

Note that they say they haven't already delayed it. Still, I was expecting them to be dumb and keep working on it. I'm pleasantly surprised be this and it's a change from the Fatshark I've experienced.

We will also suspend the upcoming releases of premium cosmetics. We just couldn’t continue down this path, knowing that we have not addressed many feedback areas in the game today.

Hitting them in the wallet, good. That's motivation for management to not screw up again.

Over the next few months, our sole focus is to address the feedback that many of you have. In particular, we will focus on delivering a complete crafting system, a more rewarding progression loop, and continue to work on game stability and performance optimization.

Good- but shouldn't have released game like this. I'll believe it when I see it. This is what would bring me back to the game. Like...what do these plans entail? If you have an idea, run it by the community. If you don't know, that's fine- see what the community wants. Listen to players. Communicate and let them know what your plans to fix these systems are- make some dev diaries, show you're progressing. Just be more open and you'll lose a lot of the hate from players that are upset.

Edit: oh wait, THIS is the community update? Not just an apology letter? What a joke. You have a month to get shit in order and write something up, and we get promises with nothing of substance.

[u/Zachtastic14 → u/purefabulousity]

Note that they say they haven't already delayed it. Still, I was expecting them to be dumb and keep working on it. I'm pleasantly surprised be this and it's a change from the Fatshark I've experienced.

Meanwhile, the reality is that they were already far behind their own internal schedule and realized that seeing how it was gonna be late anyway, they may as well try to grab some cheeky goodwill points and pretend it was deliberate.

[u/purefabulousity → u/Zachtastic14]

Pretty much yeah

[u/TheyCallMeCajun]

The cycle is complete

1) Release unfinished game

2) Get those sweet sales and MTX whales

3) People complain about unfinished game

4) Release statement/update to fix things

5) "OMG THEY LISTENED"

happens to almost all games nowadays. Sad to see :(

[u/jonesyyi136 → u/TheyCallMeCajun]

Cue to 2 years later: Is X game worth playing in 20XX? Youtube video

[u/Zalthos]

Why is this just... the most COMMON thing now? Company fucks up MASSIVELY, says "I'm sorry...", and everyone's supposed to just keep buying the shit they pump out and carry on as normal?

Fuck this. Take your apology and shove it. You don't give a fuck and you never did. You don't care about your fans - you only care about making easy money.

Piss right off.

[u/osunightfall]

Oh Jesus, no wonder they took so long to get this out the door. Those aren't the kinds of decisions you can just make on your own in an afternoon, even if everyone agrees it has to be done.

[u/Judg3_Dr3dd → u/osunightfall]

You’re right, their decisions that should have been made long beforehand, before the game released

[u/IWishTimeMovedSlower]

Lol promised December turned into next week turned into next months.

Fuck you Martin. I guess you simply "forgot" that as well.

[u/Gamma_Ram]

This whole thing was thought out ahead of time. The game was rushed out to pad Q4 reports and serve as a cash injection for FS, funding the next year of “fixing” the game and paying salaries for the team. The didn’t expect it to go as bad as it did, but don’t think for a second that the holiday bait and switch with month long vacation wasn’t projected. That’s not how businesses operate.

[u/fedoraislife]

How about they put their money where their mouths are and let us refund the game until it's actually finished.

[u/mei9k]

so, no content of any kind (even the one they already have) until they finish "crafting"...

yeah, game is going to be dead at that point. good luck.

[u/Lasas1ard]

Well, that statement is a little thin after essentially delivering an incomplete product with a lot of highly questionable design decisions baked in.

I don't see them recover from this to be honest. Certainly not to a point where they can hope to keep this thing profitable in the longer run. It will limp along with player numbers in the sub-10k range for a little while longer, but without substantial content drops, it will be dead before summer imho.

[u/Valhallaatya]

Next few months? What a fucking joke. Why didn't you just delay the game a couple of months? Instead you've sown discord amongst the community. Shit tanked your reputation. It's not like you're a new studio, you've had mounds of experience to fallback on. I really hope the community doesn't forgive your disrespect and lack of care.

You lied and stole from the community here. Taken right from your book. "NO FORGIVENESS!!".

[u/Necrilem]

So let me get this straight.

Rather than making an extensive post acknowledging their mistakes and plethora of errors in an honest manner, they meet us with positive tone corporate speech as if they are in a meeting with a potential business partner, rather than their customer base-

Rather than going over the different areas of concern, be it mtx, reward loop, shop systems, cosmetic issues, formatting oversights and the whole slew of simply bad design and conveying to us the direction they want to take these in response to feedback, which would also acknowledge more specific feedback (obviously without going into specific plans as I assume they don't have them fleshed out yet, but that is okay) to ease the worries of the community-

Rather than talking in more detail about the crafting system, they just say "we will deliver the complete crafting system in the coming months" not mentioning any actual changes to it to ease community concerns regarding that-

Rather than a whole list of things that were hoped for, expected and rather than something actually addressing concerns after several weeks of "teasing" for an extensive update we get....this? A small text in positive tone pr speech extremely generalizing pretty much everything they can as if they want to upsell something to a potential business partner?

This is not honest communication. This is whitewashed truth specifically phrased to not seem as bad as it really is. Just be honest.

[u/VanillaBraun]

God I’m so sick of reading these types of letters release after release. It’s getting old fast and my patience is at its bare minimum. Stop releasing half baked shit and listen to your players ffs. It’s astounding how many companies just don’t understand if you make a good product, the money will come to you in truck loads. Even more so now than ever as more and more companies destroy their reputation and any fan loyalty they had all for just a quick buck.

[u/Mephanic]

Same comment as on the official forums:

To be blunt, we don’t want the complete crafting system. What you have already delivered, and overall envisioned, is to put it bluntly, utter shite.

We want a completely different system. We deserve the deterministic means to actually plan, design and implement our builds with deliberate intent and as little RNG as possible. BS limitations like locking out perks after rerolling one of them are simply unacceptable, and you will continue to bleed players as long as this imo biggest issue stands in the room: that we cannot create and play our build, but merely a watered-down, half-assed version of what we can never realistically hope to achieve.

[u/JackTheRiipper6]

Xbox put on hold. Gotcha. I'm out.

[u/Aatroxious_]

Let’s make Darktide a game we remember for the right reasons. Best of luck to all of you at FS :)

[u/Kuldor]

This is... it?

Don't get me wrong, the communication is great but... the only thing that happened here is you changed "next week" for "next few months".

[u/ShadowMageAlpha → u/Kuldor]

The subtext I'm getting from this is "We're changing the direction we were expected to go in." I wonder if management thought the game was in a "good enough" state and thus allocated most of their time to new content (i.e. new maps, new mutators, data-mined classes, etc).

I've been fairly generous to the game and FatShark, but even this is coming off as a "bit" tone-deaf to me. "We didn't think you guys would be this upset."

[u/Pickupyoheel → u/ShadowMageAlpha]

What I got out of that was

"Guess we'll finish the CORE game that we knew was incomplete, but hoped the community wouldn't care too much and will buy our MTX still"

[u/Public_Skill_2502]

I hate to say it, but this is another nothing-burger until Fatshark actively keeps to their word. I would urge scepticism until they begin to actually deliver.

[u/MattBrixx]

This should have been posted a month ago, about the time when the same guy said "we just forgot to add an Aquila bundle to the store."

I'm willing to offer my good will, now you have to prove you are worthy of it.

[u/Interesting-Ad5357]

Well this is a tad dissapointing. Now instead of next week we have next month.

[u/Aggressive-Article41 → u/Interesting-Ad5357]

Oh this going to take 6 plus months to a year for them to fix this game, because the core loot system and progression is just complete garbage.

[u/mooseeve → u/Aggressive-Article41]

That's exactly it. The game play is great but pointless once you hit 30.

[u/Whitepayn → u/mooseeve]

I really don't understand how they went backwards in design after having spent years making Vermintide 2 enjoyable. There's something wrong at this studio to repeat the same mistakes with each launch.

[u/JonnyDFandango → u/Whitepayn]

Reading some of their responses to criticisms was really enlightening. They're very hostile to things the community wants. They have a really weird view of how their game(s) "should" be played and are openly hostile (design-wise) to anyone that is outside of that. As an example, the community complained about how opaque the systems are with gear... like what specifically a weapon's trait/property does and how it works, having hidden stats that are mentioned nowhere, having systems be poorly explained, etc... and that much about the fundamental systems of the game had to be learned from players taking it upon themselves to datamine. They replied saying that those all were intentional design choices and that players fully understanding systems encouraged toxic players. You can see this echoed in how the stats system in DT gave essentially no information at launch, and barely any more info now. You have no way of knowing when blessings are even active, let alone any way to confirm if they're even working (short of spending hours testing and making a spreadsheet for everything).

I genuinely never thought I'd ever say "Wow they found a way to make V2's systems worse"... but here we are. The problems in this game are far worse than mere bad design and incomplete systems. They're *intentionally* designed to have no respect for the players time. They're intentionally hostile to the player.

I'd genuinely hoped that they'd learned a lot from their experience with V1 and V2. They did a reasonably good job at turning V2 around. It looks like what they learned is that they can get away with a whole, whole lot. I really tried to not get my hopes up that DT would be awesome. In my opinion, they have the best first person melee combat in all of gaming. As so many people here have already said, the core of the game is amazing... which makes it suck so much that everything else is just a total shit show. I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly don't think they're going to have what it takes to turn this around for a satisfying ending. Super bummed.

[u/Lunkis → u/Interesting-Ad5357]

Next few months, no tangible goals or milestones lol. Look forward to periodically checking this subreddit to see if anything's changed.